The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

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Summerlander
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby Summerlander » 12 Oct 2014 15:25

Point taken and yet when science introduced the idea of a multiverse to dispel the intelligent design folks noting of a creators hand being needed because the chances of what we have existing are so small, they opened Pandoras box. Suddenly everywhere, every possible outcome of ever moment is being exploited. So in some universe, maybe ours God Exists and in others he doesn't. Chances are somewhere this argument is already over.


And this coming from a person who quotes Carl Sagan. :mrgreen:

In the other thread I have explained why the universe is apparently intelligently fine-tuned to bear life but it really isn't. In fact, if it was going to be fine-tuned by some divine Creator, don't you think this one could have made a better job? Why is the vacuum of space, which makes up the bulk of it, so deadly to us? Even a great portion of the non-vacuum (other stars and planets) are hostile to life. And why waste the moon? Some intelligent design! :lol:

With or without a multiverse, this universe could have stumbled upon the coordinates that barely make it hospitable to life. (This is how I would put it.) :mrgreen:

I rest my case. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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buildit
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby buildit » 12 Oct 2014 20:53

Summerlander wrote:
Point taken and yet when science introduced the idea of a multiverse to dispel the intelligent design folks noting of a creators hand being needed because the chances of what we have existing are so small, they opened Pandoras box. Suddenly everywhere, every possible outcome of ever moment is being exploited. So in some universe, maybe ours God Exists and in others he doesn't. Chances are somewhere this argument is already over.


And this coming from a person who quotes Carl Sagan. :mrgreen:

The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent.
Carl Sagan



In the other thread I have explained why the universe is apparently intelligently fine-tuned to bear life but it really isn't. In fact, if it was going to be fine-tuned by some divine Creator, don't you think this one could have made a better job? Why is the vacuum of space, which makes up the bulk of it, so deadly to us? Even a great portion of the non-vacuum (other stars and planets) are hostile to life. And why waste the moon? Some intelligent design! :lol:

With or without a multiverse, this universe could have stumbled upon the coordinates that barely make it hospitable to life. (This is how I would put it.) :mrgreen:

I rest my case. 8-)



Dam give you a whole world and you bitch because the universe isn't suited for your needs too. :roll: As for quoting Sagan I give all knowledge it's time and place.

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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Carl Sagan


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Personally, I would be delighted if there were a life after death, especially if it permitted me to continue to learn about this world and others, if it gave me a chance to discover how history turns out.
Carl Sagan


An open mind is not a sign of weakness, but a closed mind is.
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Summerlander
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby Summerlander » 14 Oct 2014 00:50

LOL! Read the first quote again and see why it stands against your take on God and the afterlife.

As for the second one. It is Sagan's wishful thinking. He did not speak with certainty. He was an atheist and he knew fully well what Bertrand Russell discovered as an adolescent: there is no God, no afterlife, and no free will.

We have asked you time and again to provide evidence or at least the reason why you so confidently believe in God and the hereafter. So far what you evince isn't compelling: wishful thinking, biblical passages about why Jesus is misinterpreted by anti-theists, and the illogical position of trying to get nonbelievers to prove the nonexistence of a divine being. Well, we are telling you absence speaks volumes, evidence against intelligent design speaks volumes, and it makes no sense to believe in something for which you have no evidence. Your position is one of faith, and faith is blind.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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buildit
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby buildit » 14 Oct 2014 01:06

Summerlander wrote:LOL! Read the first quote again and see why it stands against your take on God and the afterlife.

As for the second one. It is Sagan's wishful thinking. He did not speak with certainty. He was an atheist and he knew fully well what Bertrand Russell discovered as an adolescent: there is no God, no afterlife, and no free will.

We have asked you time and again to provide evidence or at least the reason why you so confidently believe in God and the hereafter. So far what you evince isn't compelling: wishful thinking, biblical passages about why Jesus is misinterpreted by anti-theists, and the illogical position of trying to get nonbelievers to prove the nonexistence of a divine being. Well, we are telling you absence speaks volumes, evidence against intelligent design speaks volumes, and it makes no sense to believe in something for which you have no evidence. Your position is one of faith, and faith is blind.

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And you refuse to admit that our science is not good enough to prove or disprove any of the observations that might be presented as proof. :roll:
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Summerlander
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby Summerlander » 14 Oct 2014 02:10

What observations? What are you talking about?

Look, I have said before that, despite science being the best method of enquiry we have, it hasn't got everything sussed out yet. But this is no reason to fill in the gaps in our understanding with whatever fancy you see fit. Hence why I mentioned the famous God of the Gaps arguments that you seemed to have missed.

You want to know how science looks at the concept of God? As a hypothesis. This status is the most inferior of all. It stands on the opposite side of the spectrum to say, the theory of evolution or the theory of gravitation...

Evolution has enough substance to the point of making us accept it as a fact. God remains at the bottom because there is absolutely nothing to support such idea. Because there is nothing yet discovered in favour of His existence, there is no reason to readily believe in Him. Bear in mind that science is not dogmatic. It awaits discoveries. But I must say that the God idea is not looking good.

It it is so important for you to make us believe in what you do, show us your compelling evidence! I shouldn't even be telling you this. Apparently you're a scientist...

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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buildit
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby buildit » 14 Oct 2014 03:24

Summerlander wrote:What observations? What are you talking about?

Look, I have said before that, despite science being the best method of enquiry we have, it hasn't got everything sussed out yet. But this is no reason to fill in the gaps in our understanding with whatever fancy you see fit. Hence why I mentioned the famous God of the Gaps arguments that you seemed to have missed.


It also doesn't mean we shouldn't investigate.

As for what My observations are they are none of your business but are enough for me to question the secular beliefs. If you're lucky maybe someday you'll have an experience that makes you question what you think you know. ;)
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

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Summerlander
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby Summerlander » 14 Oct 2014 18:40

buildit wrote:
Summerlander wrote:What observations? What are you talking about?

Look, I have said before that, despite science being the best method of enquiry we have, it hasn't got everything sussed out yet. But this is no reason to fill in the gaps in our understanding with whatever fancy you see fit. Hence why I mentioned the famous God of the Gaps arguments that you seemed to have missed.


It also doesn't mean we shouldn't investigate.

As for what My observations are they are none of your business but are enough for me to question the secular beliefs. If you're lucky maybe someday you'll have an experience that makes you question what you think you know. ;)


But scientists have investigated many claims. they have given many beliefs in gods, spirits, and the paranormal the benefit of the doubt. And guess what: they found absolutely nothing... :roll:

Did you know that Darwin's cousin Francis Galton was one of the first to test the efficacy of praying? He even used believers and Church devotees in a double-blind experiment. Praying was found to be ineffective. :twisted:

And your observations are our business because you are the one making tall claims - beliefs that you erroneously pass off as truisms. For a scientist you are not very open and as to the point as you should be.

And "secular beliefs"? What is that? If you are religious it means you believe in divine revelation. If you are secular (especially in the atheistic sense) you disbelieve. Secular people have the prerogative of disbelieving seen as there is no evidence to support religious claims. The pious do not have the prerogative of certainty in what their doctrine propounds because their claims remain insubstantial. The argument from faith, by the way, is very weak and unscientific indeed. "Trust without question and proof," they say - just like the North Korean regime! :cry:

I have also had many experiences before which have made me question many things. Questioning is very good. But I have searched for answers in the right places and from the right sources, to wit scientific ones. I have not allowed myself to be biased by fancy. :ugeek:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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buildit
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby buildit » 15 Oct 2014 00:58

Summerlander wrote:I have also had many experiences before which have made me question many things. Questioning is very good. But I have searched for answers in the right places and from the right sources, to wit scientific ones. I have not allowed myself to be biased by fancy. :ugeek:


:lol: :lol: Ohhhh. The scientific answers. The ones we know are true. :roll: I assume your experiences in the lab have taught you how the project manager can "correct" your data if needed. In the academia world labs are often closed when they go "the wrong way". Your faith in what you have been told is greater than my faith in what I'm told to believe either in religion or in science. In both cases the megalomaniacs control the fields and wear new Rolex watches at their formal dinners. :evil:

The same science has made claims to cold fusion, the link of autism to vaccines and immunizations and the same science which can't determine if smoking really is bad for your health? Yes, science will give us flying cars in another two years. :roll: I am not selling anything but I fully have the right to believe or investigate what I want, the way I want, for as long as I want without know it all's like you defining the scope of my work since you aren't paying for it.
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Summerlander
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby Summerlander » 15 Oct 2014 02:16

The rumoured link between autism and vaccines comes from a study by Andrew Wakefield which was published in the Lancet. His study was found to be a hoax and his licence was revoked.

You really want to enter the realm of conspiracy theories with that crap? Like I said before, in the scientific community, if you are not doing science, you will get found out and shamed in the process. Your work is bound to be peer-reviewed.

I was also talking about astonishing personal experiences with the illusory out-of-body phenomena. The mundane explanations are, I found, more compelling and substantial than the supernatural claims.

I am not a scientist, by the way. I'm an artist and bookmaker. Although I will soon enter the field of mortuary science as a profession. And I certainly won't be like Duncan McDougal. I know exactly where the 23 grams come from and it is definitely not a soul... :-D

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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buildit
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Re: The Atheist and Anti-Pseudoscience Thread

Postby buildit » 15 Oct 2014 02:41

Summerlander wrote:You really want to enter the realm of conspiracy theories with that crap? Like I said before, in the scientific community, if you are not doing science, you will get found out and shamed in the process. Your work is bound to be peer-reviewed.


LOL. I see our conversation is over. You already know how it's supposed to work. Just like real life right, it should work just like they told you. Why would they lie? :roll:
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?


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