Life and Death

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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deschainXIX
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby deschainXIX » 23 Jan 2015 04:06

Nice little analogy. A lot of times you've got to approach the natural selection concept indirectly like that so that the subect won't shut down and close up walls of denial.

But, yes. Evolution has indeed been observed directly. We've "seen" it happen right before our eyes! An easy example is the H1N1 virus. I also wonder what creationists think about why exactly we need a new influenza shot each season. Or why hand sanitizer should be avoided. Vaccines and sanitizers kill perhaps 99.9% of the bacterial population. But that 0.01% that happened to have the genetic mutation for being immune to it survive and proliferate and bam--this bacterial species has now evolved to be immune to our vaccine. And we need a new one for next season. Eventually, of course, we're going to run out of vaccination options. We desperately need to find a more economic way of keeping people alive, or else natural (or would it be artificial?) selection will create a super-influenza like good old H1N1. But this one will be unstoppable.

Evolution has also been directly observed in finch populations in the Galapagos Islands. The evolutionary biologists Peter and Rosemary Grant (married), who won the Kyoto Prize and the Pulitzer Prize for best nonfiction writing, have done some truly remarkable work there. They've methodically captured, tested, tagged, and observed and recorded Galapagos finches over six month long sessions every year since 1973, demonstrating rapid evolution via allopatric speciation.

[ Post made via iPad ] Image
Well said.

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Derpybunneh
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 17:12

deschainXIX wrote:
Derpybunneh wrote:How do you know there is no next life?


How do you know there is an afterlife? Because that's what you've believed all your life?

I hear a chorus of "You can't do that!"s. But consider this. If I make the claim that the boogeyman exists, it would be rational of you to ask me, "How do you know the boogeyman exists?" And (using your own argumentative logic) I would promptly reply, "How do you know he doesn't exist?"

This fallacious problem is summarized in the following axiomatic statement:

The onus lies upon the believer--not the skeptic--to evidence his claims.



Humans are mortal. They are collections of frail, organic tissue and liquid that visibly deteriorates and has a limited metabolism and dies. They are kind of like fruiting bodies for the extenuation of life, that strange and adaptive matter procreated ultimately by supernovae. From what we know about the universe and biology and neurology, there is no reason to believe in an afterlife. There is nothing sublime or divine about the homo sapien and anyone who solipsistically and anthropocentrically makes such a claim has a lot of explaining ahead of them. And yet no one can explain it. It's merely a "feel-good" sentiment to comfort people. However, as any Buddhist (or lucid dreamer or meditator) will tell you, nonexistence is true bliss. So really the disposition of the realist is the most comfortable--not that this matters, of course. :D



We really are giving this thread far too much attention. This is an ugly little advertising thread made by an ugly, sad little person. I certainly don't want to strike up another debate. I just wanted to lay my cards on the table in response to DerpyBunneh and didn't realize how long I had made this post. :|


You, sadly, got it all wrong. You say there is nothing divine about our species, homo sapiens. Oh boy, disbeliever, there is mighty things divine about our species. We have the potential to become a god. We have the potential to be able to create our own universes, galaxies, planets, worlds, animals (animals does not include humans), and humans. How little you know of your potential. Oh how sad it is to think that you do not believe that we, humans, have potential. I feel sorry for you. My belief, and many others, believe in an afterlife. I've had a relative that died, and came back to life. TAKE THAT SCIENCE! Try proving how my relative came back to life. Only a god can do this. There's some proof of god and the afterlife for ya. She even wrote about her experience in the spirit world.
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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Derpybunneh
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 17:14

deschainXIX wrote:
But, yes. Evolution has indeed been observed directly. We've "seen" it happen right before our eyes! An easy example is the H1N1 virus. I also wonder what creationists think about why exactly we need a new influenza shot each season. Or why hand sanitizer should be avoided. Vaccines and sanitizers kill perhaps 99.9% of the bacterial population. But that 0.01% that happened to have the genetic mutation for being immune to it survive and proliferate and bam--this bacterial species has now evolved to be immune to our vaccine. And we need a new one for next season. Eventually, of course, we're going to run out of vaccination options. We desperately need to find a more economic way of keeping people alive, or else natural (or would it be artificial?) selection will create a super-influenza like good old H1N1. But this one will be unstoppable.

[ Post made via iPad ] Image


Speaking of vaccines, I've never been vaccinated for anything. LOL
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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Derpybunneh
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Joined: 16 Sep 2014 22:27

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 17:15

This whole discussion is very amusing.
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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Derpybunneh
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 17:23

HAGART wrote:I kept my joke clean with only urine and forgot about #2! It could have been a dirty joke! ;)
I didn't reply in the other thread but I would love to sit back and listen to Durbybunneh's theories that challenge natural selection. I'll sit back with some popcorn and 3D glasses, and I liked your joke too.
Evolution is just a theory though and I'm open minded, but you know what? So is gravity! Believe it or not, nobody can truly explain why it exists and there are competing theories. But it's still obvious it exists, like it or not. I'm on the Evolution Bandwagon right now and it's because I seriously thought about it and agree with it. If Derpy can change my mind, I'm open to it.

As for the new title... I don't know.


I'm open minded too. But when it comes to evolution, that idea is shut out of my mind. I abhor the idea of evolution. Whenever anyone talks about it, I facepalm.
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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HAGART
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Location: CANADA

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2015 19:01

Suit yourself. I was eager to hear your side about evolution, but you certainly can't convince me if you won't challenge it at all, so we're at an impasse. I'll remain brainwashed by Darwin until someone saves me.

Derpybunneh wrote: I've had a relative that died, and came back to life. TAKE THAT SCIENCE! Try proving how my relative came back to life.

I'm very interested in your zombie relative and have heard about Voodoo rituals that raise the dead. I really do want to learn how your people and culture do it and if you can prove it to me.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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DesertExplorer
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Location: Xīlà

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby DesertExplorer » 23 Jan 2015 19:58

Derpybunneh wrote:She even wrote about her experience in the spirit world.

Many did. And all the experiences are the same. Some they even listened to a melody that it was exactly the same for all.

And this, for our friends who disagree here, has been started to happen from years long B.C period, so it's really not a rumour that turned into a myth. There are records.


I know, I know.. But before you answer, listen to this.
Let's say that you know X and don't know Y. For someone to be able to make you understand what Y is, they must show you in some way that X=Y or it's not. But, they don't know what that X is, that you understand, so they cannot relate to you. And you cannot prove X to them either, because you don't know what Y is, so you can't relate to them. Nothing will work. Contradiction, my friends. If this wouldn't exist, evolving would not, either. Everything would stay the same. So, for me to change your mind is not beneficial and for you to change mine or is not, either. So you can relax, stop playing the scientists and have a disagreement that will really progress, instead of doing questions that whatever the answer is, it's been rejected by you before you have even read it.

But that I don't know if it will happen with you.
I love science and surely what we talk about is not related.
But I wonder. You doubt. There is a huge difference, that you cannot deny.
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.

~David Gerrold

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HAGART
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2015 20:29

I found an interesting website:
http://www.wikihow.com/Defend-Evolutionism-Against-Creationism
How to Defend Evolutionism Against Creationism (in 7 steps)

I like the first 2 in particular and without that there is no point in ever going further in the discussion:

1. "Since the theory of evolution is not a religious belief, try to leave religion out of the discussion. Even if you are an atheist, do not use evolutionary theory in your attempts to disprove the existence of god(s), because evolution doesn't disprove God's existence. If a creationist asks you to explain the origin of the universe during a debate on evolution, say he's gone off topic. Biological evolution has nothing to say on the origin of the universe."

2. "Recognize that it is important that your friend understand the philosophy of science. Start by making sure your friend can explain to you the scientific method and what "theory" means. Science builds its theories in order to comply to observable facts. It is theoretical and open to revision as fact dictates. The theory of evolution describes the emergence of new species from preexisting species. A good scientist would reject or revise the evolutionary theory based on the facts that are progressively presented. In fact, evolutionary theory has been revised many times over and will continue to be revised in the future as the facts demand. If you must, explain how this is not, as it might first appear, a weakness, but in fact an example of the scientific process at work. Science accepts almost nothing as 100% proven and is always ready to change its mind when new information is discovered."

You can read more by following the link above, but I don't want Derpy to smash their palm into their face, so I suggest Derpybunneh ignore it. Whatever you do, don't read it. You can hurt yourself. I hope just those two didn't cause bodily harm, and the last thing I want is for someone to get injured.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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DesertExplorer
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Location: Xīlà

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby DesertExplorer » 23 Jan 2015 20:52

Very interesting. Τhanks, Hagart.
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.

~David Gerrold

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Derpybunneh
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Joined: 16 Sep 2014 22:27

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 21:28

HAGART wrote:Suit yourself. I was eager to hear your side about evolution, but you certainly can't convince me if you won't challenge it at all, so we're at an impasse. I'll remain brainwashed by Darwin until someone saves me.

Derpybunneh wrote: I've had a relative that died, and came back to life. TAKE THAT SCIENCE! Try proving how my relative came back to life.

I'm very interested in your zombie relative and have heard about Voodoo rituals that raise the dead. I really do want to learn how your people and culture do it and if you can prove it to me.


My religion does not do it. God does it. He sends people back to earth because they did not complete their mission on earth. Many young kids die, because their time was up on earth. They were meant to get a body for a short time and come back.
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup


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