Lucid Dreaming and Religion

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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RedKryptonite
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016 02:26

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby RedKryptonite » 18 Aug 2017 14:12

LoneDreamer wrote:Vedas are the oldest books/scriptures of Hinduism. They are really long scriptures. Its more about living and stuff rather than how you treat pagans. What I meant was that many ppl in my country say that Vedas said that ganja is precious and valuable medicines and stuff. So it should be legalised. As far as smoking is concerned I have read that smoking anything is not good for lungs. Also, is your prez Trump?

Oh,I see. Yes,Cannabis has been scientifically proven to be very useful as a tool for medical treatment. Its a far better and safer alternative than many of the typical pharmaceutical drugs (Unlike those drugs,you can't really overdose on Cannabis. the most that will really happen if you do too much is extreme discomfort and nausea,but chances are you won't die or suffer a fatality)

I'll send you a PM regarding your other question.

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 18 Aug 2017 15:58

RedKryptonite wrote:
Summerlander wrote:The war on drugs is an absolutele failure and a waste of resources. Alcohol is far more dangerous than cannabis. Where I come from, eversince drugs were decriminalised, the crime rate went down. (Things only remained messy with heroine.) You may guess which European country that, like Holland, took steps to be exemplary regarding drugs ...

People shouldn't have to be punished if they want to experiment with---or recreationally take---mind-altering substances. Drugs can be used moderately and wisely without any serious repercussions. And those who end up abusing them need rehabilitation---not incarceration.

People need to inform themselves about drugs and the risks involved just like tobacco, alcohol and pharmaceutics. This is the kind of courtesy that every government should extend to their people in order to send a clear and reasonable message: 'We trust you to be responsible and if you fuck up, we are here to help.' I'm with you on this one, RedKryptonite. Well said. 8-)

Hi Summerlander,
Words cannot describe how much I agree with you. Hopefully I successfully get my Visa soon. I'd definitely love to visit those places. (if not live there one day).

There is something I'd like to ask. Have you ever tried DMT? I've heard its a drug that could give a human the most powerful psychedelic experience they could ever experience,to the point it could very well change them forever. Its definitely in my "to-do before I die" list.


I've never tried exogenous DMT (tried psilocybin and salvia, the latter can produce similar effects). I have read DMT: The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman---who conducted DMT trials on human subjects. He was studying its effects on the brain and found the strange experiences people reported quite intriguing. They were having out-of-body experiences; encountering what they took to be extradimensional beings; apparently teleporting to other worlds; and experiencing being at one everything. Weird psychedelic stuff ... :shock:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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LoneDreamer
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Joined: 30 Jul 2017 07:41

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 23 Aug 2017 14:17

This is one of the debates between Shankaracharya(a theist) and an atheist(probably Buddhist) that probably happened before 800 AD.
http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2008-February/019816.html
I read it, but couldn't understand anything. :| If any of you can understand pls explain it. :geek:

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 24 Aug 2017 01:03

The argument for God here is based on the following specious and gilded assertion which almost tries to pass off our current epistemological limits for evidence of a Creator who conceals Himself: There must be a supernatural cause to our universe which remains hidden to our senses. But this is still pure conjecture!

I'll draw an analogy to illustrate what's going on in the article ...

Imagine a team of zoologists following a trail of footprints made by some kind of prosimian. The footprints suddenly cease near a group of trees and the scientists scratch their heads. Some say the footprints are evidence of a new species of monkey that must have wings and decided to take off in flight at the point where the marks cease. But the more forensically-minded peers remonstrate such assertion to fly in the face of what truly defines evidence and reason. As they look around for real evidence, they request that the whole team ponder upon how much one can really claim to know. 'What is the most plausible explanation?' they ask as everyone is reminded that a winged monkey has never been spotted and that many carnivorous predators which live in the woods could have devoured a conventional monkey where the footprints disappear. 'Well, you have no proof that such fate befell the creature,' the flying-monkey enthusiasts retort. 'Conclusively, no, we don't,' the flying-monkey disbelievers respond, 'But we know such is possible and we have recorded species falling prey to other species before. And by the way, look at these trees; the prosimian could have jumped----not flown---onto those nearby branches ...'

The cause of the universe need not be an independent, complex and intelligent one---otherwise we have the same problem all over again: Who or what created a Creator that by definition has to be more complex than His creation, and who/what created the Creator's creator ad infinitum? Perhaps things exist because, naturally, they must. Remember that it is very hard to imagine or even conceive absolute nothingness (no space and time). Real nothing can only exist subjectively as defined by something: our minds perceive nothing to be between two objects attached to each other; if both objects touch, there is no space and no time between them---no distance ... nothing! Furthermore, physicists tell us that states of nothingness at the subatomic level are so unstable and improbable that the probability for something to emerge ex nihilo is too great: hence the Big Bang and Hubble's law of indefinite spatial expansion. No deities required.

We can assume that sages like Kapila co-authored the Vedas. The source of knowledge is not some god, it is (as we can empirically ascertain) the way in which the rest of the universe interacts with---and impacts upon---sentient beings such as ourselves. We know things because we are organisms which are naturally capable of gleaning information from our environment through sensory input and data retention. No supernatural source required! To claim that one must exist is to ignore much of what we learned about evolutionary biology and neurophysiology.

To paraphrase and expound upon what Zimmerman in Fargo said, quantum theory defines our reality as a range of particles that clash in various ways. Sometimes they appear to clash in meaningful ways; objectively, however, such impressive clashes hold as much import as any other---and this is the reason why Voltaire's Persian sage slammed the door on an impressionable Candide and his philosophical friends at the end of the novella ... 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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LoneDreamer
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Joined: 30 Jul 2017 07:41

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 24 Aug 2017 02:10

Summerlander wrote:The argument for God here is based on the following specious and gilded assertion which almost tries to pass off our current epistemological limits for evidence of a Creator who conceals Himself: There must be a supernatural cause to our universe which remains hidden to our senses. But this is still pure conjecture!

I'll draw an analogy to illustrate what's going on in the article ...

Imagine a team of zoologists following a trail of footprints made by some kind of prosimian. The footprints suddenly cease near a group of trees and the scientists scratch their heads. Some say the footprints are evidence of a new species of monkey that must have wings and decided to take off in flight at the point where the marks cease. But the more forensically-minded peers remonstrate such assertion to fly in the face of what truly defines evidence and reason. As they look around for real evidence, they request that the whole team ponder upon how much one can really claim to know. 'What is the most plausible explanation?' they ask as everyone is reminded that a winged monkey has never been spotted and that many carnivorous predators which live in the woods could have devoured a conventional monkey where the footprints disappear. 'Well, you have no proof that such fate befell the creature,' the flying-monkey enthusiasts retort. 'Conclusively, no, we don't,' the flying-monkey disbelievers respond, 'But we know such is possible and we have recorded species falling prey to other species before. And by the way, look at these trees; the prosimian could have jumped----not flown---onto those nearby branches ...'

The cause of the universe need not be an independent, complex and intelligent one---otherwise we have the same problem all over again: Who or what created a Creator that by definition has to be more complex than His creation, and who/what created the Creator's creator ad infinitum? Perhaps things exist because, naturally, they must. Remember that it is very hard to imagine or even conceive absolute nothingness (no space and time). Real nothing can only exist subjectively as defined by something: our minds perceive nothing to be between two objects attached to each other; if both objects touch, there is no space and no time between them---no distance ... nothing! Furthermore, physicists tell us that states of nothingness at the subatomic level are so unstable and improbable that the probability for something to emerge ex nihilo is too great: hence the Big Bang and Hubble's law of indefinite spatial expansion. No deities required.

We can assume that sages like Kapila co-authored the Vedas. The source of knowledge is not some god, it is (as we can empirically ascertain) the way in which the rest of the universe interacts with---and impacts upon---sentient beings such as ourselves. We know things because we are organisms which are naturally capable of gleaning information from our environment through sensory input and data retention. No supernatural source required! To claim that one must exist is to ignore much of what we learned about evolutionary biology and neurophysiology.

To paraphrase and expound upon what Zimmerman in Fargo said, quantum theory defines our reality as a range of particles that clash in various ways. Sometimes they appear to clash in meaningful ways; objectively, however, such impressive clashes hold as much import as any other---and this is the reason why Voltaire's Persian sage slammed the door on an impressionable Candide and his philosophical friends at the end of the novella ... 8-)

Well, now I can understand. But can you simplify each sentence in the link and post it here? You know, I want to read it myself. Its not necessary. Just asking. :mrgreen:

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Melasdesign
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Melasdesign » 24 Aug 2017 16:26

Religion has directives about what happens when you're asleep?????? If you dream lucidly, enjoy it. Maybe it's God's gift to you.
Susan Phillips Hicks
Melasdesign

See my Dream Series art at
https://society6.com/melasdesign/collection/dream-series

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LoneDreamer
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 24 Aug 2017 17:15

I am not religious. But even then my religion doesn't care about what I do in sleep. Why should it? :)

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 29 Aug 2017 20:29

Well, now I can understand. But can you simplify each sentence in the link and post it here? You know, I want to read it myself. Its not necessary. Just asking.


I've got three kids and a political tome to read. Sorry. :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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LoneDreamer
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Joined: 30 Jul 2017 07:41

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 30 Aug 2017 04:47

Summerlander wrote:I've got three kids and a political tome to read. Sorry. :mrgreen:

No problem. :) I will figure it out myself.

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 01 Dec 2017 07:18

You do that. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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