Lucid Dreaming and Religion

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 16 Aug 2017 18:52

I dedicated a whole thread called 'The Shocking Truth' about the value of meditation and how some of the Buddhist philosophy can actually help one to mitigate suffering in this life---which is really the only life we can be sure of. So you can live a harmonious life whereby the things you like can be enjoyed without attachments or the constant pursuit of pleasure. If life presents you with opportunities to be happy, by all means grab them; but if things don't go your way you can still cultivate a strong mind which is equanimously okay with any scenario. For example, you may wish for sunshine on your day off, but, if it happens to rain, recognise that there is nothing you can do. You can appreciate the sound of rain and even observe the subjective effect of droplets buffeting your face.

You can live in the present moment, observing the contents of consciousness arising in your mind, without feeling victimised---without dwelling on the concept that things are 'affecting me'---as you come to realise that the self is also a mental fiction, a label, a fabricated identity which does not define pure awareness. (The latter is simply the knowing of things as percepts emerge in subjectivity.) But remember ... the pursuit of enlightenment, as a life hack, is optional.

I don't believe in any deities expecting everyone to reach 'salvation'---I don't even like this word as I find it patronising: some people are happy to go through life having a good moan and when zealots say one is doomed if one does not follow the Path, they imply that we are all created sick and ordered to be well. I don't buy an existential system of reincarnation to provide opportunities for spiritual growth and I don't believe in Karma either. I believe in Newtonian physics and a universe of cause-and-effect which leaves no room for free will. So we have no choice and therefore cannot, ultimately, be blamed or praised for anything. Life has no meaning other than how we, shaved apes that we are, choose to view it. We create our own purpose based on our experience and the needs and urges that we did not pick let alone author.

As for nirvana, if we take that to mean freedom and the cessation of being, you achieve that at death anyway. Freedom because you are finally free of any emergent experience. Cessation because you no longer exist---the non-state you were in before your birth.

I did say that morality precedes religion and there are secular ethics and deontology which are far superior to, say, the Bible's Ten Commandments. I can cite the works of Kant, for instance. But I shall review your other posts to see if there is anything I can add. ;)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 17 Aug 2017 01:06

LoneDreamer wrote:I would say if there is a heaven, it should be like a world of my own in which I am god. I can literally do anything. Experiment with life, play games and stuff.


For how long? :mrgreen:

Regarding god, I have read in some games,comics and some religious scriptures that collective thoughts of humans occasionally influence the world and maybe god too. Seems like a cool theory but can't completely believe since it's related to supernatural stuff.


Anybody who claims that such thing is the case, with absolute certainty or with a supercilious air, is full of rot. Such claims, in scientific argot, do not exceed the insubstantial level of hypotheses---and have not done so since time immemorial! Since they were first uttered, they have remained in the realm of fantasy and human imagination. (Unlike gravity, evolution and relativity in physics---real theories as they are backed by an empirical body of a posteriori observations about reality.) :ugeek:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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LoneDreamer
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 17 Aug 2017 04:34

The posts you quoted were just some thoughts and ideas about god.What I meant was the posts that were after your posts regarding morality. Which talks about Hinduism and other eastern religions. I can't say much about western ones.

About heaven, I did say that I can do anything in it right? ;) I will just go into an eternal slumber stuff or maybe observe the universe until ceases to exist. Literally, what I meant by heaven was being able to become god. Just my thoughts though. :mrgreen: Regarding Buddhism, when you put it that way, I can see the point. Really interesting thoughts. But like you said, I did have that feeling that I'm being targeted by the world when I was kid. But now, even though I haven't reached enlightenment but I can kind of see things as they are now. I can see your point. I also think that free will is an illusion. But we can't say that in the courtroom. Its my thought that some things in society should be kept as they are. For at least now, otherwise we will slide into chaos. I don't think humans are ready for acknowledging the truth at least for now. Regarding atheism, I believe that it is most valid when we reach that conclusion ourselves instead of being taught from birth that there is no god. That's my opinion though. :geek:

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RedKryptonite
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby RedKryptonite » 17 Aug 2017 06:39

LoneDreamer wrote:About heaven, I did say that I can do anything in it right? ;)


Actually,there is one idea that I could think of that could make eternal life forever enjoyable and sustainable. Look at the effects of certain dangerous/illegal drugs. Lets use Heroin as an example. Now,I've never done heroin before in my life,I've only done Mary Jane(loved it..but sadly can't do more of it. Because of the place I live,and because it hurts dream recall which is crucial for lucid dreaming) and I did get to try Meth 3 times(didn't really like it) But from the stories I've read of people who have actually done the drug,they literally describe it as the best euphoria you could ever feel,to the point where you can do nothing all day and not get bored. If this is accurate,then heaven must be you being forever high on heroin or whatever drug that achieves that same kind of high for you minus all the downsides of dangerous drug use. I imagine (again,I've yet to use heroin)you could literally never get bored of the feeling and you can spend the rest of your immortality in eternal bliss.

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LoneDreamer
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 17 Aug 2017 12:29

Hmmm! :geek: :ugeek: Your idea seems good. A god on drugs controlling universe. Pretty cool. But can't say the same things for the my devotees. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Also what the heck is Mary Jane?

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RedKryptonite
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby RedKryptonite » 17 Aug 2017 13:15

LoneDreamer wrote:Hmmm! :geek: :ugeek: Your idea seems good. A god on drugs controlling universe. Pretty cool. But can't say the same things for the my devotees. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Also what the heck is Mary Jane?

Mary Jane is just another word/slang for Marijuana ;)

Actually,this discussion gave me an idea. After trying out the Mcdonalds idea for my next lucid dream,maybe I'll try smoking a joint in my LD. I've read some anecdotes from people who've successfully replicated the effect in an LD. Hopefully its true,I miss the taste of a good ol joint :cry:

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LoneDreamer
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 17 Aug 2017 15:51

So, it's ganja. Is it legal in your country?, In my country it's illegal. I must say that I have seen illegal drug circles. One of the guys in my class uses it. Maybe if I ask him I may get a free sample. But it's far too expensive for me. Also, doesn't it cause addiction?

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RedKryptonite
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby RedKryptonite » 17 Aug 2017 22:19

LoneDreamer wrote:So, it's ganja. Is it legal in your country?, In my country it's illegal. I must say that I have seen illegal drug circles. One of the guys in my class uses it. Maybe if I ask him I may get a free sample. But it's far too expensive for me. Also, doesn't it cause addiction?

Unfortunately,where I live it isn't just illegal,but you run the risk of being killed by a certain crazy pres(and his assassins)who thinks mass murder is the solution to the war on drugs. :roll:

In the past(before I discovered lucid dreaming),I used to have myself a good time weekly. it was illegal,but I never got caught :twisted: Thankfully my father knew that ganja isn't really harmful,it even has health benefits and thus permitted my use(though other drugs were off limits,though I did manage to try out meth. he never caught me,but I did eventually tell him about my experience since I never got addicted to it). However,once a certain someone became pres,we had to stop usage because it was simply too risky. Thankfully however,in that span of time,I learned of lucid dreaming and thus became a suitable replacement hobby for the mean time.

Honestly,all you have to do is look at the countries where drugs have been decriminalized to see that their drug related deaths,crimes,and fatalities,and even drug users themselves are significantly reduced. I'm a firm believer that most drugs should be decriminalized (or even legalization,but with safety rules and limits in place of course).
Seriously,Alcohol is far more dangerous and has caused far more deaths,fatalities,crimes and unnecessary violence than ganja(and even many of the so called illegal drugs)ever could. cigarettes are far more harmful to your health(and not to mention,the environment)than mary jane and yet that too is legal. :roll:

I eventually plan to leave my country and live somewhere else(like the Netherlands,but we are still debating)and thankfully my mom and other family members are helping me with that. Despite my earlier statement regarding our conflict of beliefs,she is a nice/kind person overall and I love her for that :D

As for your question about the bud being addictive...not really,the addiction potential is very low. I stopped when getting my hands on it got too dangerous. Some people have addictive personalities that could get psychologically addicted to weed,but most of those people are prone to getting addicted to anything anyway.

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 18 Aug 2017 01:42

The war on drugs is an absolutele failure and a waste of resources. Alcohol is far more dangerous than cannabis. Where I come from, eversince drugs were decriminalised, the crime rate went down. (Things only remained messy with heroine.) You may guess which European country that, like Holland, took steps to be exemplary regarding drugs ...

People shouldn't have to be punished if they want to experiment with---or recreationally take---mind-altering substances. Drugs can be used moderately and wisely without any serious repercussions. And those who end up abusing them need rehabilitation---not incarceration.

People need to inform themselves about drugs and the risks involved just like tobacco, alcohol and pharmaceutics. This is the kind of courtesy that every government should extend to their people in order to send a clear and reasonable message: 'We trust you to be responsible and if you fuck up, we are here to help.' I'm with you on this one, RedKryptonite. Well said. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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RedKryptonite
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby RedKryptonite » 18 Aug 2017 02:16

Summerlander wrote:The war on drugs is an absolutele failure and a waste of resources. Alcohol is far more dangerous than cannabis. Where I come from, eversince drugs were decriminalised, the crime rate went down. (Things only remained messy with heroine.) You may guess which European country that, like Holland, took steps to be exemplary regarding drugs ...

People shouldn't have to be punished if they want to experiment with---or recreationally take---mind-altering substances. Drugs can be used moderately and wisely without any serious repercussions. And those who end up abusing them need rehabilitation---not incarceration.

People need to inform themselves about drugs and the risks involved just like tobacco, alcohol and pharmaceutics. This is the kind of courtesy that every government should extend to their people in order to send a clear and reasonable message: 'We trust you to be responsible and if you fuck up, we are here to help.' I'm with you on this one, RedKryptonite. Well said. 8-)

Hi Summerlander,
Words cannot describe how much I agree with you. Hopefully I successfully get my Visa soon. I'd definitely love to visit those places. (if not live there one day).

There is something I'd like to ask. Have you ever tried DMT? I've heard its a drug that could give a human the most powerful psychedelic experience they could ever experience,to the point it could very well change them forever. Its definitely in my "to-do before I die" list.


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