Malala and Terrorism

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Summerlander
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Malala and Terrorism

Postby Summerlander » 25 May 2016 22:18

Apparently, Malala Yousafzai said: 'Guns kill terrorists, education kills terrorism.' (Let's bear in mind that many Islamic terror masterminds were wealthy and educated at the Ph.D. level and their respective fields of expertise helped them to carry out their attacks!) :roll:

I think Malala's view of the world is a little black and white for me. (If indeed she did say that.) Of course, education will always be better than no education. Education is not the issue here regarding Islamic terrorism. To remove Islamic terrorism, we must acknowledge on a global scale that Islam itself is a plagiarised myth. The source of this type of religious fascism is the Qur'an, which proclaims itself to be the unalterable word of God. I repeat: the unalterable word of God. So no matter how much young Muslims are exposed to science and reason, they will always view their suras as statements that trump all logical arguments. And they pride themselves in their unshakable faith. I'll fully respect Malala when she realises that rejecting Islam---as Ayaan Hirsi Ali did--- is the next noble thing to do. Hirsi Ali has gone much further ...

The problem of jihad stems from religious doctrine. It doesn't stem from a lack of education as Malala's quote insinuates. If it did, we'd see a lot more terrorists than we care to know about. There are plenty of uneducated people out there who don't behead others for having a difference of opinion and would deem suicide bombing unthinkable. However, education---of the secular kind, I should add---may teach one to think for oneself and be a great safeguard against the religious persuasion.

Islam is the most dangerous religion as it glorifies martyrdom and emphasises punishment for non-believers chapter after chapter and more so than the Bible. Secondly, Islam has a unique doctrine of deception called Taqiyya which permits Muslims to lie to non-Muslims with the purpose of furthering their religious agenda. (This is why one cannot say with absolute certainty that some Muslims are not as bad as Islamic fascists and terrorists!)

I will repeat my argument to make sure I'm understood: 1---Jihad does not come from a lack of education (and those who say it does will have their argument refuted by the fact that many uneducated individuals are not jihadists); 2---People can be Jihadists regardless of whether they're educated or not; 3---A Muslim cannot reform Islam precisely because the Qur'an purports to be divinely unalterable and the majority would denounce the would-be reformer as an impostor; 4---A Muslim cannot provide a religious solution to Islamic terrorism when the scripture he subscribes to advocates terrorism (we've already seen Majid Nawaz being denounced by Islamists as a fake Muslim, a puppet of the West and Sam Harris's lapdog); 5---I am not as optimistic as those who think Islam's reform, as we've seen with Christianity, can only come from within precisely because the Qur'an accentuates martyrdom and Jihad like no other sacred text and religion, in general, poisons everything.

Feel free to agree or disagree ... 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: Malala and Terrorism

Postby Pilgrim » 26 May 2016 03:45

I agree with you that reformed views of the Quran will be of little benefit. I have seen some moderate Muslims that would appear to make fine neighbors. Mostly, I believe the moderate view is opposed to plain meaning of their holy work, but reverence for the cultural identity.

Cultural associations and support systems play a significant role in what people believe. Christian churches can similarly have more significance in the support network, without actually believing the related Scriptures.

Edited to add...You, a moderate Muslim family, and I could all be supportive neighbors. The problem of concern is that children in the Muslim family might decide to accept the revered writings for plain meaning, as opposed to highly allegorical renderings that are starkly opposite.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

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Summerlander
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Re: Malala and Terrorism

Postby Summerlander » 26 May 2016 21:35

A lot of Muslims just want to be accepted and make the effort to be more cosmopolitan. In doing so, they cease to be real Muslims in the eyes of hardcore adherents. With real Muslims, there is only a support network if you believe. A Muslim is not supposed to mix with unbelievers and befriend them. The Qur'an contains passages that forbid this. And don't you dare leave Islam lest a murderous fatwah be issued against you.

Muslim youngsters often feel that they have something to prove to their Allah-worshipping parents. So when a Caliphate is promised to be established in the Levant and beyond, they travel from Western places like the UK to the Middle East in search of commitment and adventure. In doing so, they kill two birds with one stone as some parents think they have gone too far---their kids' way of rebelling---and embracing an Islamic 007-like mission where they get to support the zealots who claim to speak for Allah. Unlike most Western kids, Muslim youngsters religiously rebel because religion played a significant role since the beginning!

Now you tell me the name of the source responsible for their jihadist tendencies ...
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: Malala and Terrorism

Postby Pilgrim » 06 Jun 2016 05:15

Summerlander, there must not be any Muslim readers in this forum, or they surely would have responded. It would actually have been good if a moderate and radical would show up to debate here.

As a somewhat unrelated side note, your essay did prompt me to look into some guys that I knew of from the past. Ergun and Emir Caner were the so thought authoritative leaders who were devout Muslims but converted to Christianity. These brothers appeared on the John Ankerberg show about 10 to 15 years ago, regarding Islam and its teachings. Ergun even lectured the US military about the jihad thought. (I had an acquaintance with Emir.)

Ergun's childhood story, in particular, has been shown to be false. He supposedly was trained in jihad from Turkey, Cairo, and somewhere else. He supposedly hated the West and Christianity and knew nothing of it until his family came to the US from Turkey as a teen in 1978/9. He story proved false and he actually came as 3 year old to Ohio from Sweden. His story worked well to promote him among Christians. He was head of the Liberty Baptist Seminary (of Falwell) but was fired from there.

Sigh... :(

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Summerlander
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Re: Malala and Terrorism

Postby Summerlander » 06 Jun 2016 10:39

Pilgrim wrote:Summerlander, there must not be any Muslim readers in this forum, or they surely would have responded. It would actually have been good if a moderate and radical would show up to debate here.


It would be interesting to say the least and I have an idea of how it would go ...

Pilgrim wrote:As a somewhat unrelated side note, your essay did prompt me to look into some guys that I knew of from the past. Ergun and Emir Caner were the so thought authoritative leaders who were devout Muslims but converted to Christianity. These brothers appeared on the John Ankerberg show about 10 to 15 years ago, regarding Islam and its teachings. Ergun even lectured the US military about the jihad thought. (I had an acquaintance with Emir.)


That is really interesting. When did those men realise that Islam is not the final revelation? In the Islamic world they must be regarded as apostates and worthy of death and eternal damnation. I wonder how they sleep at night and what finally attracted them to Christianity.

Pilgrim wrote:Ergun's childhood story, in particular, has been shown to be false. He supposedly was trained in jihad from Turkey, Cairo, and somewhere else. He supposedly hated the West and Christianity and knew nothing of it until his family came to the US from Turkey as a teen in 1978/9. He story proved false and he actually came as 3 year old to Ohio from Sweden. His story worked well to promote him among Christians. He was head of the Liberty Baptist Seminary (of Falwell) but was fired from there.

Sigh... :(


What do you believe the real story behind Ergun is? Sometimes governments lie for the sake of convenience. Why was he fired from the Seminary?
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: Malala and Terrorism

Postby Pilgrim » 07 Jun 2016 00:17

It appears that brothers were converted as teens, since their friend kept inviting them to church. I think it is true that their father disowned them. Yes, Muslims issued some kind of decree against them after they wrote a book after 9/11 attacks.

The seminary released Caner for some factual misstatements, as with his claim for childhood in Turkey. That would be interesting if your theory of possible government involvement to protect.

I have seen enough misstatements that I think that Caner did often take liberty to embellish stories. He claimed to have debated with Muslim clerics, which claims appear false.

I did watch this video from one of Craner's critics that appears to expose Caner on some things. It is over two hours, so you probably would not care to watch, but here is the link. https://5ptsalt.com/2013/09/11/ergun-caner-one-mans-jihad-against-christian-evangelism-of-muslims/

As a serious note, Craner has a child that suicided. I think it was related to the controversy.

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Summerlander
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Re: Malala and Terrorism

Postby Summerlander » 07 Jun 2016 00:34

You raise some good points. I shall check out the story. Providing that link wasn't in vain at all. I shall respond soon about what I think. ;-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: Malala and Terrorism

Postby Pilgrim » 07 Jun 2016 11:44

Great! Sorry that the video is poor footage. It looks like it was from a cellphone in some church. It has some down time at the beginning with an empty podium. :P

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Summerlander
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Re: Malala and Terrorism

Postby Summerlander » 07 Jun 2016 15:05

I think people like Ergun Caner don't help in building a case against Islam when they spout inconsistencies. Mullahs only gain credibility when they point out Caner is just another 'Christian Kafir' who does not understand Sharia Law as evidenced in his book Unveiling Islam.

Because of Caner's errors, that no academic should make when writing a thesis on a particular subject, the actually accurate points in his anti-Islamic literature---such as the prophet Muhammad having been an opportunistic paedophile---are meretriciously discredited by the opposition. How can the layman of theology trust anything that Caner says when his rivals expose his mistakes with such confidence and justifiably so?

Anyone who has looked at Caner's work first to see it subsequently ravaged by Muslim apologists most likely won't look any further on the anti-Islamic argument and may just assume that other reasonable works against Islamic doctrine, such as Sam Harris's The End of Faith, is of the same calibre.

I don't think Jerry Fallwell vouching for Caner helped him either seen as the former has been posthumously disgraced and exposed as a fraud by good journalism. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: Malala and Terrorism

Postby Pilgrim » 07 Jun 2016 23:23

Summerlander, I agree with you on Caner. The state of Christian psychology and method for determining truth is the underlying issue. Craner got the full support of Paige Patterson and Jerry Falwell, who are/were viewed as anointed agents of God.

Laymen perceived "blessing" is a prominent theme. The Liberty Seminary doubled or tripled in size quickly under Caner. The growth is viewed as God's approval. Reasonable questions against the anointed are viewed as attacks from hell.

I had never heard of the speaker in the video--James White. I would like to read/hear more about his views because his concerns for truth and reasonable debate impressed me. It seems that he actually was debating in Muslim places of worship, while Caner appears to have been having imaginary debates.

I was also unaware of the extent of resurgence of Reformation theology, which White embraces. It ties back to our discussion of free will.

Reasonable debate and learning are not the norm in Christianity now. It might change as more Christians, like White, grow livid with the corruption. Craner is a blow against Christianity and a reason for Muslims to laugh.


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