Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

What have you learned from your dream characters? What do they say, what do they represent, what motivates them, why do they exist?
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HAGART
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby HAGART » 18 Jan 2013 19:44

I am also interested in conversations that we have with Dream Characters and wonder if anybody has some interesting questions to ask them. Perhaps questions that have no right or wrong answer, but will provide insight into their psyche as if we were a psychiatrist probing their minds. (or probing our own I guess).

Here's an interesting conversation I had once. The person was an elderly Chinese woman, and I felt she was the subconscious-incarnate-type character:

(When I first saw her I thought to myself, should I talk to her?)
Then I said: Hi!
She said: You should say, hello! (implying, why was I so shy to talk to her and even have to consider it?)

I said: Did you just answer my first internal question I was asking my self only now?
She said: No.

I said: Do you think independently from me?
She said: Yes.

I said: Do you know who I am?
She said: Yes.

I said: Do I know who you are? (thinking she was my subconscious)
She said. Yes.

That's all I have written down and forget what we talked about after that.


If anybody else has interesting dialogue with a dream character, this is a great place to share it. I am interested and I bet a lot of you reading this are too. If you are not interested THAN WHY ARE YOU HERE STILL READING THIS MESSAGE?!
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby lucidinthe sky » 19 Jan 2013 18:33

It's interesting because just the past 2 nights I've had a lot more dialog with DCs than usual. Maybe it's this thread that got it going. :) A lot of what I'm getting back is really off-the-wall stuff.

Last night I had 2 time travelling LDs, one past and one future. Going to post about those in the Share Your Lucid Dream section. I actually did quite a bit talking and asking questions last night and even got up to write some it down. In all cases it's been difficult to get much information out of any of them. Here's a sample: A man brings in an airplane that he has built and is ready to fly. It arrives on a trailer being towed in a vehicle behind us which we can see from the car we are in. I'm driving the car and this guy is sitting next to me. So I ask him "I'm building a helicopter. When it's done would you fly it?" He looks at me and says "No way!". I ask "I built an airplane how about that?" He says "What's it's name?" I answer "Uh, actually it doesn't have a name." He says, something like "NO name! That's a problem". Then he says "O.K. if that airplane were the captain of your life, what would you name it?" "Well, of course I would name it Captain." O.K. there you go, it's Captain." So that was the end of that conversation. Not much wisdom there, but at least I got something out of this DC.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Summerlander
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby Summerlander » 20 Jan 2013 18:22

HAGART wrote:I am also interested in conversations that we have with Dream Characters and wonder if anybody has some interesting questions to ask them. Perhaps questions that have no right or wrong answer, but will provide insight into their psyche as if we were a psychiatrist probing their minds. (or probing our own I guess).

Here's an interesting conversation I had once. The person was an elderly Chinese woman, and I felt she was the subconscious-incarnate-type character:

(When I first saw her I thought to myself, should I talk to her?)
Then I said: Hi!
She said: You should say, hello! (implying, why was I so shy to talk to her and even have to consider it?)

I said: Did you just answer my first internal question I was asking my self only now?
She said: No.

I said: Do you think independently from me?
She said: Yes.

I said: Do you know who I am?
She said: Yes.

I said: Do I know who you are? (thinking she was my subconscious)
She said. Yes.

That's all I have written down and forget what we talked about after that.


If anybody else has interesting dialogue with a dream character, this is a great place to share it. I am interested and I bet a lot of you reading this are too. If you are not interested THAN WHY ARE YOU HERE STILL READING THIS MESSAGE?!


Fascinating. Everything she told you was true. "You should say, hello" could have been the expression of an internal option for a greeting that pre-consciously originated in your mind but was eventually ignored in favour of "hi". Now lets say that in the dream world, there is a lot of potential for more thoughts to be voiced and heard by the conscious self. If you favour the utterance of a particular word, there is still potential for the more unconscious alternatives to manifest rather than being repressed. In this fashion, as my thesis goes, if you won't say it a dream figure in your lucid dream might.

So, instead of the woman, as a conscious entity, implying that you were shy and should say "hello" to her, the lucid dream could have been merely expressing an alternative that was ultimately substituted. The outcome was "hi" instead of "hello". Note that you even included a comma between "say" and "hello" rather than typing a continuous phrase. Was this more conscious or subconscious?

When you asked the woman if she had answered an internal question the answer was no. And she didn't. At this point, in the light of consciousness, the mental mechanics had already established a presentable outcome - one that you could accept and tolerate. Your toleration in lucid dreams is very high anyway because you are lucid and know the deal. Even if the outcome doesn't make sense, it doesn't matter, it doesn't have to make sense and you can handle this.

When you asked if she thought independently of you and she answered "yes", she was indeed telling the truth but there is an ambiguity here. As a mental manifestation, she originated from the same unconscious source as you but the difference being that she is closer to the unconscious. As a thought form, she is independent of you because you did not consciously will her into dream existence. The unconscious determines her being just as it determines your being too. Another feasible possibility is that you pre-consciously imagined her uttering a shocking "yes" to that question. In a similar fashion, what we fear can have a high potential too.

She could have depended on you, from your perspective, had you decided to consciously control her. But even if you had taken charge in manipulating her, don't be fooled. You still wouldn't be the author of the will to control. The great unconscious, with its mysterious mental clockwork, would be determining your wishes and giving you the illusion of power. You merely sit at the surface. Meanwhile, the mental quicksands beneath you determine your movements as well as the other elements in dreamland.

In saying this, do try to control your lucid dreams if you wish to do so. By all means go ahead even if ultimately we are just conscious puppets.

Image

If the dream character that we may wilfully control is the sock, we are the cartoon character. The unconscious is the cartoonist.

This is a great thread and it is nearing its entelechy! :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby HAGART » 21 Jan 2013 05:17

Summerlander, I like your reply and will read it again and really think about it.

But I think I can sum it up in a simple way:
WE ARE TALKING TO OURSELVES.
That is what I think about lucidinthe sky's example too.

Although it doesn't feel like it, and I swear I didn't put words in her mouth, perhaps I did, at a subconscious level. I have a feeling if I met the same type of dream character and asked the exact same questions in the same order I may get a different result.

Unlike true science, exploring and examining a lucid dream is altered by the observer.
Which makes me more interested and we should consider this and think about it further!

It's fascinating and (I looked it up again..) is becoming ENTELECHY!
(Dream Characters are the main aspect of any lucid dream and are the "main vital principal that guides the development and functioning of an organism or other system or organization." OR in a philosophical way, they are the 'soul' of the dream.

More reason to get to know them.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby lucidinthe sky » 21 Jan 2013 05:50

HAGART wrote:But I think I can sum it up in a simple way:WE ARE TALKING TO OURSELVES.


That's true, but we are talking to parts of ourselves that may be hidden, repressed or somehow inhibited in our waking lives so these "other" people in our dreams may tell us important things that we might not otherwise be able to find out. I am often surprised by the some of things DCs say and they often don't make sense until I dig deeper. I don't necessarily hear what I want or expect, but usually what I need. When I asked one of my toe people if they have their own personalities separate from me, the answer was a question: "how long is an era?" That has nothing to do with the question, but has a lot to do with where my life is going.

Some of what they say remains a mystery to me and a challenge to understand. I had lots of conversations with DCs in my last LD which was about time travel. None of them could understand the concept of time, they could understand a date or a year, but not how much time had passed between the years. It's left me thinking, and I guess that's the great part about DCs. If they make you think about things, maybe you will discover something new.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

boardsenseless
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby boardsenseless » 22 Jan 2013 23:30

I rarely meet dream characters in my dreams. When I become lucid and demand clarity any "people" disappear, leaving me wandering around a silent environment. On the rare occasions I do encounter dreams characters to speak to I wil usually exchange pleasantries to he polite and then ask something like "do you have any information for me?" Or "tell me something I need to know." But, before they can answer the dream always ends. It's very frustrating. Recently I flew through space from one planet to another at the speed of light, landing in a body of water where I encountered a group of "worm men". It was awesome but then the same thing happened as soon as I asked for information. I must be doing something wrong. My girlfriend interacts with her dream characters, spirit guides and even other lucid dreamers regularly in her dreams and has learned some fascinating stuff.

[ Post made via Android ] Image

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HAGART
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2013 00:18

HAGART wrote:I have a feeling if I met the same type of dream character and asked the exact same questions in the same order I may get a different result.


I wanted to try this and so finally I had a lucid dream and did. Here is the story, (and as always poses more questions than answers.....)

First off, I promised KungfuPanther I would try to use telepathy to guess his number from another topic. Something I put to rest a long time ago, but since he asked recently and I like to have a dream-task anyway, and dream characters can say the darndest things anyway, I just wanted to get that done as well as my experiment and kill two birds with one stone. Here's what happened:

(I was on a beach, apparently watching a movie (movie dreams are common to me), and I was thinking about how when I was younger I was interested in the sand castle (this thing was huge and ornate like a sand sculpture), but now that I am older I like other aspects of this 'movie'. And I saw a girl in a green bikini. :oops: I just said, "hey you, why don't you come over here?" (Which is completely out of character for me and when she did, I had my Eurika moment and realized I was lucid dreaming. But I had a task to complete and I managed to use my other head for thinking....) :lol:

I asked: Do you know KungfuPanther's number?
There was no answer. In fact, as I was trying to remember KungfuPanther's name, I looked away and when I looked back, she was gone.

I was sitting on the beach and I looked along the length of it, and it was crowded. Lot's of people, but the kind I would describe as zombie-like with no character. I called out, "Does anybody speak?"
No answer.


Then I saw a woman walking in my direction amongst the crowd and I just felt immediately like she would be a talker. She was in her 50's, short and stalky, and seemed like a cross between Eastern-European, and Asian. She was carrying things like bags with straps (purse sized, but not a purse), and they were oddly shaped like nothing I have ever seen, (and yet just knew they were bags of some kind).

She was about to walk past me and ignore me, so I asked, "Do you speak?"
She said: yes. (with an accent I cannot place, but not my own.)


Then out of nowhere to my surprise, before I could ask another question, she spoke again!
She said: Isn't the food here grrrrripe! (not a rolling 'r', just almost like she changed the word she was going to say mid-word)

I thought, alright, I need to remember that because I knew at the time I would be writing about it now.

Then I asked her: What is KungfuPanther's number?
She said: I don't know.

I asked: Does anybody here know?
She said: No.


I asked: Do you think independently from me?
She said: Yes.


Then I thought, what was the next question going to be?..... I just couldn't remember! I didn't want to stall for too long, because I thought I would lose focus. Then I heard people talking in real life and it woke me up.

It was a very light-sleep-lucid-dream just in the morning when I happened to fall asleep again. It wasn't expected anyway and besides, it is easier to remember a conversation verbatim if you wake up right after. And after I woke up the questions I wanted to ask came to me with no effort. It was hard in the dream no more than 10 seconds prior, but with a waking mind it was easy.

I have my own theories about what happened and possibly why, but I'd rather wait and see what others think first.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2013 05:20

Summerlander wrote:If the dream character that we may wilfully control is the sock, we are the cartoon character. The unconscious is the cartoonist.


That's a great analogy. We are in the middle with limited control. But metaphorically speaking, is there a way to get to know the cartoonist? Not control it, but understand it and how it works, and I think dream characters are the gateway to that knowledge. They know us and our subconscious, I mean, why wouldn't they? They are both 'us' (self aware conscious selves) AND the subconscious (lizard brain if you will) and they are the bridge.....

I think I am on to something... Still don't know what I am looking for, but I just want to question dream characters and understand them for now. What makes them tick? I want to get into their heads.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby Summerlander » 24 Jan 2013 20:34

We probably may never fully know the unconscious as it is bigger than us but we can be inspired by its many manifestations in the dream world and use its insight to make a better person of ourselves. Although we are unable to look at the cartoonist square in the face, there is much we can learn about his psychology by observing what he has drawn around us as well as paying attention to our own feelings and behaviour.

Come to think of it, you are right! It is a great analogy! :D

By the way, you seem to be on a similar quest as Robert Waggoner. He shares a similar fascination. Have you read his book "Lucid Dreaming: Gateway To The Inner Self"? It is a great read! 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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beadietux
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby beadietux » 27 Jan 2013 19:30

This post has been a great read...I posted the other day about how I keep letting DC's hijack my LD's.

I seem to have 2 types of DC's.

1. The "I Shun You" DC's - these are the ones that I talk to but who try to pretend I'm not there and won't answer me and won't look at me, but I know they hear me. Sometimes they glance at me and then look away real quick as if they feel very awkward, like they know something that they don't want to tell me. Or they just keep turning their head and won't look at me and walk away.

2. The Interactive DC - this type will look at me and talk and maybe even answer my questions but it's either totally nonsensical or they are talking about something that makes sense but is completely different than what I asked them. And I often can't remember anything they said post dream. That's very frustrating.

Lately, these interactive DC's have been distracting me so much that I lose lucidity and it turns into a normal dream. I hate it when this happens because my memory of the lucid part is all fuzzy and dreamlike rather than lifelike, like it usually is if I wake after the lucid dream and remember details of it right after to implant it into my memory (this method works fine for me, btw...as opposed to having to write it all down right after the dream...anyone else this way?).


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