Lucid Dreamers and God

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.

Have you ever tried to communicate with God in the phase state (LD/OOBE/AP)?

Yes, and I was successful
4
8%
Yes, but nothing happened
2
4%
Yes, but what was encountered was a product of my mind
5
10%
No, but I am willing to try
27
52%
No, and I'm reluctant to try out of fear
0
No votes
No, and I never will (I'm an atheist who doesn't see any point)
14
27%
 
Total votes: 52

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Summerlander
Posts: 4110
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Summerlander » 28 Feb 2017 02:43

Welcome back, nesgirl! :D

Who are you kidding? :twisted:

'Most people persist in this creed that life is sacrosanct. But unless one is constantly in high spirits and without repercussions, to NOT be born is most expedient. It can be problematic when matter in this universe becomes conscious---or when objects become subjects---because then the organism (as an aware unit of matter) has to wage its instinctive drive for survival against the natural indifference of its surroundings.'

~Arlindo Batista
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

lucidé
Posts: 503
Joined: 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby lucidé » 28 Feb 2017 02:49

Summerlander wrote:Welcome back, nesgirl! :D

Who are you kidding? :twisted:

'Most people persist in this creed that life is sacrosanct. But unless one is constantly in high spirits and without repercussions, to NOT be born is most expedient. It can be problematic when matter in this universe becomes conscious---or when objects become subjects---because then the organism (as an aware unit of matter) has to wage its instinctive drive for survival against the natural indifference of its surroundings.'

~Arlindo Batista


I am NOT nesgirl! nesgirl hates sexuals, remember? Check out what thread I am posting in within the paranormal section if you don't believe me.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

User avatar
Sean Jacobs
Posts: 554
Joined: 23 Dec 2016 22:04

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Sean Jacobs » 28 Feb 2017 21:39

Personally, I don't believe any in any past dead or currently active religions when it comes to god(s). However, I cannot prove there is no god or gods floating around out there of which I am not aware because he/she/it/they choose not to provide any clear demonstration of his/hers/its/their existence.

However, someday in the future I would love to become lucid and create a dream door to the Christian god's (the religion which is most familiar to me) throne room and then walk in just to see what my subconscious would create. Then I can challenge Yahweh and Jesus to a dance off!! :D
"All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream." ~ Edgar Allan Poe

lucidé
Posts: 503
Joined: 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby lucidé » 28 Feb 2017 23:08

You remind me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IetF-tkCCTw

Even Zeus couldn't resist dancing his way to the six flags amusement park to that tune!
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 4110
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Summerlander » 05 Mar 2017 21:36

If there is a God, He has a lot to answer for. As Omar Khayyam once said, if the world is just He should be praised; 'if it be foul, to God alone the blame.'
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 4110
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Summerlander » 19 Apr 2017 13:09

As I'm reading Roger pearson's translation of Candide and Other Stories by Voltaire, I found this excerpt in the Introduction section:

'One of the basic axioms in Leibniz's system is the so-called Principle of Sufficient Reason, which holds (rather unsurprisingly) that there must be some logical reason why anything is as it is. According to this axiom even God must have, or have had, a sufficient reason for His actions, and since He is by definition perfect, it must always be, or have been, the right reason. If God is perfect, however, why is He not sufficient unto Himself? In other words, why did He create? The answer lies in the traditional ontological proof of God's existence. According to this, if one can conceive of a being uniting all possible perfections, this being must necessarily exist, since for it not to exist would be an imperfection. If existence is a perfection in God, then it must be a perfection in created beings. Hence (or supposedly so) the more different kinds of created beings there are, the more God has demonstrated His divine power.

'Since God is perfection, and since God was creating something separate from Himself, it follows that what He created had necessarily to be imperfect. At the moment of Creation He had to decide between an infinite number of possible (i.e. imperfect) worlds. Following the Principle of Sufficient Reason He necessarily chose the best of all possible worlds (i.e. the least imperfect), namely that in which the greatest diversity might obtain and in which there would be the greatest excess of good over evil.

'By this token a world without evil, were it even logically possible, might be less good than a world with evil since some great goods are inevitably bound up with certain evils. Thus, for example, free will is a great good but entails the possibility of sin. By this reasoning, then, the presence of evil in the world may be said to offer no argument against the benevolence or omnipotence of God. On the contrary, all evil is for a greater good (though it does not follow, as Pangloss proposes in CANDIDE, that the more evil there is, the better ...). Thus, all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.'


As you may have undoubtedly noticed, my fellow atheists, this is Lebnizian casuistry. First of all, how can God create something separate from Himself since He is supposed to be omnipresent? How could Leibniz have overlooked that very important detail? And if there is imperfection within Him, He is not perfect and ceases to be God. Also, all of a sudden not even God has free will since it seems that He was forced to choose the supposedly wiser option of creating this world (because the other options would have further damaged His reputation). And if He is God, why couldn't He, using His magical powers, create a world without evil and still beget the greatest outcome. He is God! He could have easily created beings with no proclivity for evil! It seems like, in trying to do the opposite, Leibniz has inadvertently made a case against God's omnipotence and I'm glad Voltaire attacked his sickening optimism ...

Somewhere else I also proposed the following scenario which need not be believed as it also goes without evidence:

The Big Bang could have been the accidental creation of a transcendent being. Why not?

I don't necessarily believe in the proposition because there is no evidence, but I'm not stupid enough to claim with certainty that the scenario is impossible in reality for then I'd have no means to demonstrate the impossibility.

We can say with certainty that the theistic god---who intervenes in human affairs---does NOT exist. Forget the Bible and the Qur'an. It's rubbish and I'm with you there.

But imagine this deism-inspired scenario: an unimaginable being (or hard to imagine since I just asked you to imagine it) existing on a larger scale of reality created a globe the size of its head which simulates numerous realities inhabited by sentient units. Our universe is merely a spark or spec of debris which was accidently produced in the making of that perfectly computerised globe that contains a myriad worlds. The Architect looked at the spark (our universe) and just left it---knowing it would blow out by itself (cold death).

The Architect does not have to be worshipped. The Architect is not a god. But He is a Creator by nature. If a deist told me this is what he believes, and he's in awe of this transcendent architect, I would simply say to him, 'Interesting proposition but I see no reason to believe it until evidence is presented.'

What I wouldn't do is make the mistake of saying, with certainty, 'I know it's not true!'

That would be unreasonable of me to do so. Hence I remain in my non-dogmatic position of atheism until either the deist or the theist substantiate their claims to my scientific satisfaction.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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