Lucid Dreamers and God

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.

Have you ever tried to communicate with God in the phase state (LD/OOBE/AP)?

Yes, and I was successful
3
7%
Yes, but nothing happened
2
4%
Yes, but what was encountered was a product of my mind
5
11%
No, but I am willing to try
21
47%
No, and I'm reluctant to try out of fear
0
No votes
No, and I never will (I'm an atheist who doesn't see any point)
14
31%
 
Total votes: 45

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nesgirl
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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby nesgirl » 22 Jul 2014 00:04

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 01:10, edited 4 times in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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HAGART
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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby HAGART » 22 Jul 2014 00:40

Summerlander wrote:The god in your lucid dream reminded you of your Indian friend, which brings me to ask you whether he was religious or exuded an air of religiosity.


No he wasn't. I looked up to him though, and we would get 'spiritual' at times while testing the effects of Tetrahydrocannabinol on consciousness in High School. (Purely for scientific reasons! ;) )

I was expecting someone I would revere, while I was in a more 'spiritual' state of mind. Expectations sure do have a huge effect on lucid dreams. In both cases, I treated them like a 'dream guide' who would help me, not in waking life, but help me unlock some abilities and powers in the 'dream world', such as going through solid objects, or growing a tail.

So for me, my God, is my 'higher-self' with a ton of knowledge and no ego. "Me" in waking life and in lucid dreams is really just a small piece of my entire self, and I am really just a mental construct, a dream character, generated by The Ego. ( I'm not exactly sure what The Ego is, so I could be wrong, but it feels right saying that).

Whenever people pray, (doesn't matter to whom), I think they are tapping into that same 'higher-self' that sees a bigger picture.

Me: "Are you God?"
DC: "I am your God."



That's my view (whatever the heck it is), and it shows in my lucid dreams. I would be interested how a religious lucid dreamer would encounter God. My hypothesis is that we all see what we believe and expect to see.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby HAGART » 22 Jul 2014 01:05

I plan to try this again one day, but with a different expectation.

Instead of expecting a person to show up, I will consider that God is everywhere and in all things. I wonder what will happen?
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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nesgirl
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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby nesgirl » 22 Jul 2014 01:16

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 01:10, edited 2 times in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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HAGART
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Location: CANADA

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby HAGART » 22 Jul 2014 01:26

If someone stopped spreading fear it could have been shared in a civil manner. It's not going to happen now, you're right.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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nesgirl
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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby nesgirl » 22 Jul 2014 01:46

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 01:10, edited 4 times in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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HAGART
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Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby HAGART » 22 Jul 2014 01:51

I thought I was clear. Anyone else agree? 8-)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Worldenterer1
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Location: Earth

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Worldenterer1 » 22 Jul 2014 09:38

nesgirl wrote:This is only going to start a fight.

I don't believe in talking about religion in public and never will.

And that is exactly why such harmful and silly beliefs haven't been laughed off the face of the Earth yet.
Lucid Dream Count: 10
Normal Dream Count: 100+
Goal for next LD: Think with portals.

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Karin
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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Karin » 22 Jul 2014 15:28

Here's more on my current views on God. Note that I am not interested in convincing other people I am right, and I do not have any hard evidence for anything I am saying. Most of what follows is purely subjective, it's my own truth. Maybe I am wrong, have a brain tumor, had a stroke, lost my marbles, etc... Everyone can chose to believe whatever they want.

In a nutshell, God is the center of who I am as a conscious being. It is like a fundamental note. I cannot comprehend it with my mind, but I can feel it in my heart. Yet at the same time, I am part of God: so God is at the deepest center of my being, and at the same time my whole being exists within God.

For me, God is infinite in the true sense of the word. The simple idea of a 'God out there', sitting somewhere on a cloud, passing judgment, does not make any sense to me.

For me, God is not just the sum of all existing things, it is also 'infinite consciousness'. That's not really the right wording, but what I am trying to express is that to me God is not just the cold sum of everything in a mechanistic kind of way, but also personal and unconditionally loving to everyone and everything.

So the dream challenge of meeting God in a dream initially did not make sense to me. How could I meet who I am in my heart and whom I exist within? On the other hand, since God is infinite and everything, maybe I could meet a 'projection of my concept of God' that I could talk to in a dream, just like I can meet projections of aspects of my mind in dreams. I am not sure that I'd be interested in this though... Maybe I would be more interested to 'experience' more of God in me, as opposed to experience a reduction of God projected outside of myself.

So how did I come from atheism to this view?

About two years ago, it suddenly occurred to me that I am consciousness having a physical experience, and that my body and mind aren't who I am, but instead are tools I have to experience the world. As this thought crossed my mind, I experienced a 'Ah-ha' moment, a 'lightbulb' moment: OMG, how could I have forgotten this fundamental fact? Nothing had ever rung truer than this realization. I had zero doubt about it.

That was step one. That same evening, while lying in bed, I decided to focus my attention on my awareness, on the part of me that is always there, witnessing everything, beyond thoughts. I had never consciously done that before. I instantly felt a 'reconnection' which is difficult to describe. It was always there, but I had forgotten about it. It was not a reconnection with something 'out there', it was a reconnection with something 'in there', and it had never even occurred to me before that there was anything 'in there'. The image that comes to mind is being stuck in a box for eons, thinking that's all there is and there is no way out and nothing even exists outside of it. And then one day, I think of looking up and see that there is no ceiling, that it always was open, and then I rise up and from this new vantage point, I see that the box I was existing in was limited, and that beyond it's boundaries there is a whole universe I had no idea existed, where things don't look anything like in the box.

First thing I did when I felt this reconnection is cry for help: help me understand who I am and what is real. It quickly occurred to me that what I had reconnected to was a larger part of myself, which I now call my Higher Self. And in the core of this higher self, it became obvious to me that there was the fundamental presence of God. I just know this, but don't ask me why I know this, I just know it.

So as an atheist I believed I was a tiny speck in a huge mechanistic universe, a purely random occurrence, with no meaning. This had in the blink of an eye transformed into realizing that in my core I am God, and thus that I include the whole universe within me, yet at the same time I exist as a physical being within it. Inside-out, upside-down.

The problem is this realization undermined the core foundation of who I previously thought I was and of my previous concept of reality. If I was wrong in something so fundamental, then I could have been wrong in just about everything I used to believe, including all my scientific knowledge (I am a scientist/engineer).

It soon occurred to me though that most of what I knew from Science was still valid. It all was a pretty accurate and reliable description of the physics within the box (the space-time physical universe our bodies exist in). So I did not need to reject what I knew of reality, I needed to expand what I knew beyond it.

To me, science is knowing a lot about the 3D space and time our bodies exist in, because it investigates it with instruments that exist within it, and with bodies and brains that exist within it. Even our minds exist within it, IMO. For instance, we can picture in our minds 3D geometrical shapes, but we can't picture in our minds 4D geometrical shapes. So how can we hope to comprehend higher dimensions with 3D minds and tools, let alone comprehend something infinite like God? Maybe with mathematics. We certainly can model higher dimensions using mathematics.

Now to come back to organized religions, to me at their highest they are attempts to project higher dimensional stuff into our 3D world. The result is approximations and distortions. At their worst, religions are means for the powers in place to control the masses and keep people in fear. One has to keep people thinking they can't think for themselves, the answers are outside of them and only the priests or the sacred texts have them, and they need the church to save them from themselves and tell them how to behave. Sadly, IMO it often does not bring people closer from God, it pushes them further away from it. I would not be surprised if many atheists are closer to God than many fundamentalist religious people...

I often have this picture in my mind to illustrate the above: imagine a 2D universe, like a flat land, in which 2D people exist. Now imagine a 3D cone shape outside of this 2D universe, and imagine that this cone is the God of these people. Depending on their perspective, some people are going to see this cone as a circle, and some people are going to perceive this cone as a triangle. So who is right? Is God a circle, or is God a triangle? I bet the circle-seeing people are going to claim the triangle-seeing people are lying. 'My God is a circle, so if you saw a triangle it wasn't the real God, because the real God is a circle'. And vice-versa. They might even go to war against each other, one side holding a circle flag, and the other side holding a triangle flag. What they fail to realize is that both sides are true: a cone is a circle AND a triangle, yet it is also so much more than those. Now imagine an infinite God being projected in 3D: there are an infinity of ways to perceive it, which might often even seem contradictory, yet they might all be true, yet incomplete.

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Worldenterer1
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Location: Earth

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Worldenterer1 » 22 Jul 2014 18:22

Karin wrote:In a nutshell, God is the center of who I am as a conscious being. It is like a fundamental note. I cannot comprehend it with my mind, but I can feel it in my heart. Yet at the same time, I am part of God: so God is at the deepest center of my being, and at the same time my whole being exists within God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU
Lucid Dream Count: 10
Normal Dream Count: 100+
Goal for next LD: Think with portals.


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