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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 04 Oct 2014 07:59
by HAGART
“Epicurus's old questions are still unanswered: Is he (God) willing to prevent evil, but not able? then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? then whence evil?”

― David Hume


"We made God in our own image. "

- HAGART

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 04 Oct 2014 10:27
by Summerlander
Yes, the good old Epicurean reasoning. No theodicy in the world can vindicate a perfectly good god in the presence of evil. The polytheistic hierarchy described in Homer's Odyssey would best "explain" what happens in the world today. Better still, deism: the most sensible way to believe in a Creator because this one does not interfere in our affairs and does not care (unlike Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah etc.) Hence why the innocent can randomly pay for crimes of another, as nesgirl pointed out, and justice doesn't always prevail.

Better still is the position where you don't actually believe because you have no reason to. It is better in the sense that it is sensible. After all, why believe in unicorns when they are evidently absent? Atheism isn't dogmatic either, for, the moment it is demonstrated that there is a God after all - beyond all doubt - the atheist would be a fool to cling to his position.

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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 04 Oct 2014 18:19
by nesgirl
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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 05 Oct 2014 01:02
by Summerlander
Yep! All forms of superstition are poo.You find them everywhere and in all religions. Even Buddhism, regarded by some as a philosophy and not a religion, has its own brand: karma. It's all hooey!

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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 05 Oct 2014 01:57
by nesgirl
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Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 05 Oct 2014 02:03
by Peter
Yep! All forms of superstition are poo


Literally some superstitions might once upon a time have prevented you from eating or consuming the wrong berries and getting very sick with the resulting poo arriving

There is a basis for a lot of superstitions that would have had its place at one time

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 05 Oct 2014 20:19
by Summerlander
Superstition might have aided humanity in its infancy. I don't deny that. The greatest one of all, religion, certainly helped to bring people closer together within societies. But in this day and age we have better means to be able to tell what's good and bad for us. And more reliable means too. Science and reason. Today, religion continues to be the source of much abuse, conflict, discrimination, and misunderstanding.

You also have to remember, Peter, that superstition has also resulted in the deaths of millions of people throughout the ages. From something like the belief that cannibalism strengthens your soul which resulted in the spread of deadly kuru and the deaths of many a tribesmen, to something like the burning of witches and demons by the Inquisition which wiped out many innocent people and destroyed many lives.

Superstition is an infantile way of looking at things. It has no place in our society in this scientific age. We know far more than we did. We know what causes thunderstorms, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions. We know about germs and viruses to the point of creating antidotes and vaccines. We have the power to discern good and bad lifestyles. Why rely on blind superstition?

What can replace superstition? Science and reason. The quest for knowledge and understanding. Trust me, it is an upgrade. What can replace religion - which once may or may not served us well? Secular humanism and the simple goal to improve our lives and help one another once we recognise that this is the only life we are ever going to live and it is a short one too. This is also an upgrade.

Once we recognise that life is short, make the most of it and make it worthwhile for your fellow human being, too. Don't just go through your life like you are living under a celestial dictatorship. Like some all-powerful Leader is watching you all the time and reading your thoughts. Like you don't have to do anything about this life thinking that there is a better one afterwards. You can only be sure about this one and as far as you can tell, God is absent. So go with that and be happy with your loved ones. Do not love an invisible, imaginary dictator over your family and friends.

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 05 Oct 2014 20:23
by Peter
I am not disagreeing with what you say at all so no need to tell me what i am thinking or what my opinion might be. My only statement was to a historical reason for some superstition to counteract a statement that put all superstition in one box.

A lot of concepts are way past their use by in this day and age

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 05 Oct 2014 20:29
by Summerlander
Sorry, Peter, just edited the post above. But yes, I accept what you are saying. Not all superstition worked against us in the past. It is also true that what was once a great boon might have become a misfiring byproduct of culture.

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Posted: 05 Oct 2014 20:31
by Peter
No need to edit, put up with my style and I like yours. Never an issue and I have a natural tendency to bate so also have to watch what I post

Cheers