The Pac Man Illusion

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.
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HAGART
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 14 Jun 2016 18:04

I read it all and I must say I'm agreeing with Summerlander most, but need my own paradigm shift and will welcome it.

My goal is 360 degree vision next and will work on that. The Pac Man illusion inspired me. All of life and dream is illusion to me so no need to debate that, but if anyone is wondering what the heck I mean, I can write about the "mental model of realty" and explain that if you wish.

Even just to get it out of my head and put it into words, because yes, it sounds crazy at first.

I should write a good essay about in a few days.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Summerlander » 14 Jun 2016 21:02

Pilgrim wrote:I agree with you. I just cannot reconcile to sudden paradigm shift in my dreams. Now, I expect my hands to be solid,etc. Initially, I expected my hand to be like rubber as always in my dreams, but my expectation did not work.


Perhaps it's a slow evolution because the mind is conflicted most of the time. Sometimes the expectation that wins isn't always the one you're aware of. For example, the concept of solid hands made quite an impression during the preceding waking state. As soon as you entered the lucid dream state, you formulated the expectation of possessing rubber hands, but the normal solid hands concept was ready made and still present however subconscious. Sometimes it takes a little time in the dream for the new one to 'materialise'.

Looking away and looking back can sometimes speed the process up as the initial concept is visually erased and you get a sense of starting again with the new concept that you're trying to will.

I once tried to materialise a human head in my hands and it was a gradual process. I think I posted the experience somewhere in OBE4u---I think I'll look for it because, in contrast to what I'm saying, I subsequently materialised a complete character in a split second and surprised myself. (I wonder if the concept of the full character had been unconsciously 'brewing' while I was trying to form the human head alone ...)

HAGART wrote:I read it all and I must say I'm agreeing with Summerlander most, but need my own paradigm shift and will welcome it.

My goal is 360 degree vision next and will work on that. The Pac Man illusion inspired me. All of life and dream is illusion to me so no need to debate that, but if anyone is wondering what the heck I mean, I can write about the "mental model of realty" and explain that if you wish.

Even just to get it out of my head and put it into words, because yes, it sounds crazy at first.

I should write a good essay about in a few days.


You are right about the illusion part, in a way. Perceptually, it is all an illusion because the brain can't experience the world directly and its mental model is constantly being updated and sometimes distorted. Everything you really perceive is always the mind. It is always mind. :shock:

Please do write that essay if you have time btw! 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Pilgrim » 15 Jun 2016 04:14

Haggart, I would enjoy reading your view about the illusion. I am aware in reading Waggoner's Gateway to the Inner Self that he redefines words from plain usage of current language. "Illusion" is one where he changes the meaning to match some root from thousands of years ago. Sometimes, we don't believe differently, but definitions make it appear that there is a difference.

Now, I have come across one Buddist who literally believed that a car sitting in front of us was not real. The difficulty of this world view is that it cannot be lived. If I were to drive mentioned car at this person, she would have to step out of the way (or perish).

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HAGART
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 15 Jun 2016 07:22

Yes, I do wish to write about my concept of reality and how it's mostly fabricated delusional distortions we make up to fill in the gaps.

Thanks, Pilgrim and Summerlander for sharing your thoughts. I, myself am lost in thought now, and really need to write that friggen essay that explains all of life... but we all try and fail. All the best writers and thinkers in all of history still couldn't do it.

It seems like an impossible mountain of ideas to climb, but I can do it one step at a time, and am very good at explaining the most complex things to a child, and never forget the steps I took going up, always reaching down to help others. That's my forte, and just comes naturally.

But I need some time alone for a while and may not get to it for a while, so don't hold your breath everyone.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Pilgrim
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Pilgrim » 15 Jun 2016 09:40

Hagart, do however is good for you. You can give random thoughts with nothing formal needed, if you want. We dont give grades around here. If so, Summerlander and I would flunk each other for being opposite on several things. ;)

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HAGART
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 15 Jun 2016 18:31

Yea, you're right Pilgrim. I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

I remember now one of the simplest analogies about the illusion of reality which was written in ancient Greece. It was about people living in a cave with a fire and they only saw the shadows of others outside the mouth of the cave and projected all their feelings into it as if it was real. I should find that story.

I couldn't find a good link to share, but it's Plato's Cave Allegory, in case anyone wants to look that up.
Last edited by HAGART on 15 Jun 2016 18:41, edited 1 time in total.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby deschainXIX » 15 Jun 2016 18:32

Wow! Experiencing that made my day. It reminds me of Daniel Dennett's Multiple Drafts Theory of consciousness, which he describes in his book as "deeply counterintuitive." After watching that video, it couldn't be more intuitive. It's obvious that we don't experience a seamless stream of consciousness, though we experience the illusion of doing so. What we subjectively experience is constantly in flux. :D
Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby deschainXIX » 15 Jun 2016 19:17

I have an uncle who claims to suffer from a condition in which he can't picture anything in his mind's eye. He has no idea what people are talking about when they say they can conjure up images or other sensations "in their mind." He doesn't dream, and when he shuts his eyes it is only darkness. Does anyone know anything about that?
Well said.

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HAGART
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 15 Jun 2016 19:38

It's certainly an interesting illusion isn't it, DeschainXIX. So simple yet thought provoking.
I don't know of others who have no inner imagery, but that is also very interesting. I heard some people with dyslexia don't have an inner voice, and also looked up how asexuals masturbate and they apparently feel the biological need on occasion but can't conjure up any sexual imagery. They just draw a blank. I find it fascinating to understand how others think.

With that said, I will now attempt to describe my theory on reality, not what physics can determine, but how our perception of it is different for everyone, so it's not concrete. Only numbers are. I'll do that in a moment and get my thoughts out, as imperfect as they are.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Summerlander » 15 Jun 2016 19:45

deschainXIX wrote:Wow! Experiencing that made my day. It reminds me of Daniel Dennett's Multiple Drafts Theory of consciousness, which he describes in his book as "deeply counterintuitive." After watching that video, it couldn't be more intuitive. It's obvious that we don't experience a seamless stream of consciousness, though we experience the illusion of doing so. What we subjectively experience is constantly in flux. :D


Love it, you clever devilfish! 8-)

It's a Plato's cave. A figuratively analogous Newton's Cradle, even. The flux and the illusion of eternity continues until the object is broken and inert. Then there's no subject.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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