The Pac Man Illusion

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.
User avatar
HAGART
Posts: 3338
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 10 Jun 2016 09:56

Pilgrim wrote:I am in a pattern now of having very realistic dreams, where I cannot get reality checks to fail.


I get that too sometimes. I get EXTREMELY vivid dreams sometimes that start from my own bed and I get up and walk around. It feels so real. The other day I could swear I was remote viewing and having an out of body experience when I was in the dream. After waking up, I realized it was not the case, and I had an amnesia of my self identity at the time. Everything seemed familiar at the time even though it wasn't. Our mental model of reality is not accurate and I am starting to think that anyone who swears that an OBE is real and stable, just isn't looking carefully enough. Things can change, and if it's changing as fast as our minds think, we will never notice. We have two blind spots when awake but never notice. ;)

EDIT: You said you can't get reality checks to fail, but I read it intuitively as 'can't get realty checks to work and they keep failing'. That is what you meant, right? It's funny how even language is not exact and we just get the basic idea of everything. I also want to bring up language in dreams and how it too is ever changing yet still understand.
Last edited by HAGART on 10 Jun 2016 10:17, edited 1 time in total.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

User avatar
HAGART
Posts: 3338
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 10 Jun 2016 10:08

I agree with what you wrote Summerlander and was already thinking about Object Permanence before I read your reply.

For those who don't know what that is, it's a stage in human development when we know something exists even if we can't see it. When you hide your face and play peak-a-boo with a baby they are surprised because they actually think you went away for a while and came back.

When older we grow a mental model of reality, but it's not accurate. Try and draw an accurate depiction of your kitchen right now. It's nearly impossible even to imagine. We don't know the exact layout of rooms we can't see. Go beyond that and I can't even mentally picture the street I live on even though I have seen it many times. I know it very well like the back of my hand, but even hands in dreams are always changing.

I would love to write a full essay and explain this all better, but I can't consolidate it all at the moment and just want to bounce ideas around. If I could explain it all I wouldn't have made a post on a forum about it, but written an article. My mental gears are spinning.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

User avatar
HAGART
Posts: 3338
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 10 Jun 2016 10:40

Who knows if other objects in a room are just floating around and regroup again as fast as I turn around to see it. The universe doesn't exist unless I perceive it and who knows if anyone is real and I'm on the Truman Show! :o

Ok... I digress and won't slip down that rabbit hole.

I want to bring up language and got this idea from a random off topic thread that involved LEET.
LEET is a way of writing that involves numbers instead of letters. Here is an example:

S0 74lk1ng l1k3 th1s 1s 1337


For some reason I can read that because it's close enough to English for me to understand.

When reading in dreams, I have noticed that it too changes right before my eyes. I wonder how we even read language at all and I hope you all think about it as you are reading this. Do we notice individual letters? No. We just skim through it, recognizing words that have meaning to us and fill in the blanks.

Again, I don't have a great essay to write that has all the answers, but am just pointing out some things that others may not notice and want to talk about it.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

User avatar
HAGART
Posts: 3338
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 10 Jun 2016 11:02

Knife wrote:From the LD's I remember in the past i can really relate, although I never progressed a lot and they were not super vivid.

In normal dreams however it's so accurate it's almost scary. I remember some of the changes of scenario, characters etc. when I'm writing in my dream journal but it all makes sense as one big story in the dream.


I know what you mean. Non lucid dreams can be so real and once you become lucid everything changes and a person you were just with disappears. Once you start to notice, the reality of the dream collapses.

I didn't write much before but the flood gates opened and I wrote so much now. I get like this in the morning when I wake up early and everyone else is asleep. It's the best time to think when you have no waking worries and are alone. I said a whole lot, so it will be hard to address each and everything I wrote, but hey, that's all your problem, not mine. :D

I think so much more than I can ever put into words and just wanted to spill out the overflow of thoughts I had.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

User avatar
Knife
Posts: 224
Joined: 10 Aug 2013 11:12
Location: Belgium

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Knife » 10 Jun 2016 19:48

Pilgrim wrote:This video reminds me of a video where a gorilla passes through a group of people passing a basketball, demonstrating selective attention.


Ha I've seen that video in school a few years ago, it was during human science I think, or maybe it was theology? Not sure.

HAGART wrote:
I know what you mean. Non lucid dreams can be so real and once you become lucid everything changes and a person you were just with disappears. Once you start to notice, the reality of the dream collapses.

I didn't write much before but the flood gates opened and I wrote so much now. I get like this in the morning when I wake up early and everyone else is asleep. It's the best time to think when you have no waking worries and are alone. I said a whole lot, so it will be hard to address each and everything I wrote, but hey, that's all your problem, not mine. :D

I think so much more than I can ever put into words and just wanted to spill out the overflow of thoughts I had.


Sometimes you need to get it all out man.

My thought overflow usually occurs during mindless tasks during work. Which sucks because time goes so slow then. Morning is the only time during the day when I can focus so I try to spend it on working out and doing productive stuff. I prolong that period using meditation or cold showers but the philosophy jumps in later regardless!
Inherit the earth

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 4168
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Summerlander » 10 Jun 2016 21:27

Hagart wrote:I would love to write a full essay and explain this all better, but I can't consolidate it all at the moment and just want to bounce ideas around. If I could explain it all I wouldn't have made a post on a forum about it, but written an article. My mental gears are spinning.


I'd love to read an essay like that. You could also mention that people with photographic memory can also make slight mistakes in their depictions of reality. 8-)

I think writing in lucid dreams must be a reflection of multiple drafts from subconsciously retained information in the brain---a kind of disjointed set of memories. And it is often unstable (schematic potentials) and not quite married to the conception of ordered syntax.

That's why the fully realised lucid-self---who expects to find meaning---finds the phenomenon confusing. As for how semantics arise from symbols in the brain is a complete mystery and is precisely what sets our noodles apart from computers.

Our brains do compute but they are not computers. They are something more than that. Something else capable of consciously conceiving a model of the world in relation to the organic body that bears it. After millions of years of evolution it is a truly remarkable organ! :geek:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
Pilgrim
Posts: 608
Joined: 10 Apr 2016 10:24

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Pilgrim » 10 Jun 2016 21:41

HAGART wrote:
EDIT: You said you can't get reality checks to fail, but I read it intuitively as 'can't get realty checks to work and they keep failing'. That is what you meant, right? It's funny how even language is not exact and we just get the basic idea of everything. I also want to bring up language in dreams and how it too is ever changing yet still understand.

User avatar
Pilgrim
Posts: 608
Joined: 10 Apr 2016 10:24

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Pilgrim » 10 Jun 2016 21:51

Okay :P I just woke without coffee yet. The tests I give to reality...I want them to work by failing to comply with real world rules??? You got me laughing trying to think about this!!

User avatar
Pilgrim
Posts: 608
Joined: 10 Apr 2016 10:24

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Pilgrim » 11 Jun 2016 01:41

Summerlander wrote:The truth is that the laws of physics, like gravity, do not exist in the dream world---everything is behaving according to your beliefs and expectations, so nothing is really constraining you but yourself...

User avatar
Pilgrim
Posts: 608
Joined: 10 Apr 2016 10:24

Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Pilgrim » 11 Jun 2016 01:43

I agree with you. I just cannot reconcile to sudden paradigm shift in my dreams. Now, I expect my hands to be solid,etc. Initially, I expected my hand to be like rubber as always in my dreams, but my expectation did not work.


Return to “Dream Science”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest