The Pac Man Illusion

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.
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Pilgrim
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Pilgrim » 19 Jun 2016 05:11

Hagart, I have been in Texas my whole life. Maybe the most arrogant of the states? :D

Anyone wants to discuss the math video.... It took me a few times of watching, but the guy says that particles are not really what is fundamental. He says the fundamental is space/time, which is essentially math (numbers). Is this a general view of scientists?

He talks of numbers being a universal concept. I see just as easily propositional information as universal too. When a baby says "Milk!", the underlying proposition of "I want milk" is also a universal concept regardless of language.

He then goes to the conclusion that if math is what is fundamental, and math is all derived from an empty set (nothing). Then, nothing is what is real. Is this a stretch to jump to the empty set behind all math?

I will be less deep next time! :ugeek:

Summerlander, so you are just thinking of the analogy to evoke delightful thoughts of Disneyland, yet the job sounds stringent?

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Summerlander
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Summerlander » 19 Jun 2016 10:20

Disneyland wasn't to be taken literally. (I've only been to the one in France, anyway.) :lol:

People (especially kids) normally think of Disneyland as a happy place, hence my analogy. Let's put it this way: At Betfred, you may need to call the police every week because there is always someone not happy about losing money; in Lidl, nobody is losing anything because customers there are consumers of cheap, good quality products. They are getting something in return as opposed to loss and disappointment at the bookies. :-)

Anthropological definition indeed comes from differences detected in the world. As Heraclitus pointed out, nothing is permanent, the world is in perpetual flux.

I will also leave you with a quote to ponder over:

'The tabula of human nature was never rasa.'
~W D Hamilton
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 19 Jun 2016 18:38

Pilgrim wrote:Hagart, I have been in Texas my whole life. Maybe the most arrogant of the states?


Nah, it's not arrogant. I've been to Austin which is little Canada. :mrgreen:
It's such a hipster town, eh?

Pilgrim wrote:He then goes to the conclusion that if math is what is fundamental, and math is all derived from an empty set (nothing). Then, nothing is what is real. Is this a stretch to jump to the empty set behind all math?


I too am confused at the end, and don't know much about math or what an "empty set" means, and it goes off the deep end. But I like to be confused.

When it comes to reality though, you can assign a number to everything. What is color? It's subjective and won't be the same for everyone. What I call dark blue, you may say it's light blue. We can disagree on anything, but numbers never lie.

Perhaps reality is just an animated paint by numbers game. :ugeek:

I never even answered a question and just pose more thoughts. That's who I am. This whole thread is just fleeting words in the wind, up in the air like a kite and I want someone to reel it in and catch it like a fish to pose with triumphantly. (Great analogy)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 19 Jun 2016 19:21

Summerlander wrote:People (especially kids) normally think of Disneyland as a happy place

Yes, I know. There was a famous football player after a game who said, "I'm going to Disneyland" which was an endorsement. It's the ultimate celebration as a customer, but, not as an employee. I thought too much into it.

Summerlander wrote:At Betfred, you may need to call the police every week because there is always someone not happy about losing money; in Lidl, nobody is losing anything because customers there are consumers of cheap, good quality products.


This goes way over my head and still don't know much about Befred or what Lidl is. I think it's a UK thing and totally missed the point. It goes to show that we all live in a pop culture world.

Analogies mean nothing without experience to identify with. Broad ones we all relate to work better, beyond any culture or religion.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Pilgrim
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Pilgrim » 19 Jun 2016 22:45

I think that we communicate fairly well among each other, even though we are from different parts of the world. I was thinking that idiomatic expressions and nuances particular to differnt locations might hinder communication some. Maybe TV and internet make our English very standard. Like "blood" plus "eeee" has no shock value in my area, but might in Summerlander's location. I understand you fellows really well, except when the squid and Summer use rare words.

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HAGART
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby HAGART » 20 Jun 2016 23:19

I need to look up, "idiomatic expressions" because to me that's a rare word.
I just looked it up and get it now. It's language based on idioms.

I use idioms all the time and never even realized it.

I can't see the forest for the trees.
That's me in a nutshell.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Summerlander » 21 Jun 2016 01:37

I've just realised that the link you posted supports one of Neoplatonism's most distinct doctrines. Neoplatonism holds that the first principle and source of reality transcends being and thought and is, ergo, naturally unknowable. :shock:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Pilgrim » 21 Jun 2016 02:37

Hagart, imagine I say "I am under the weather"--ill. Thousands of years from now, someone discovers my writing. They also see that I lived in Texas. They might begin to explain my words by saying that I obviously was encountering a Tornado, since I lived in a region with many occurrences of tornados. (This is a common way people handle ancient documents. Words mean how they are regularly used, and not necessarily a dictionary definition.)

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Summerlander
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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby Summerlander » 21 Jun 2016 13:04

That is true. The etymology of words and expressions can be lost over time, and if found, they are highly likely to be misinterpreted.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: The Pac Man Illusion

Postby 24/7/365 » 10 Jun 2017 14:50

I often wonder what LIFE thinks about philosophy


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