What if the Dream World is a...

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.
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Summerlander
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Re: What if the Dream World is a...

Postby Summerlander » 15 Nov 2017 03:49

Marix wrote:I see your points. But lucid dreaming and dreaming can hardly be regarded as the same. When you constitute characters and kill them in a lucid dream, you are in charge of your world and of course no one will be harmed in real life. When you have a normal dream though, you cannot decide what happens and you believe it to be real at the time. Can you feel pain in dreams? Because to me every emotion including pain is real when I am dreaming.


Ok, this is going to be a mouthful, but it might be worth it ... :mrgreen:

The percepts are real in the sense that they make their appearance in consciousness. All types of perception---waking life, hallucinations and dreams---have a subjective reality (otherwise perception wouldn't be). But we must learn to differentiate between perception generated by sensory input that tells us something about the objective world and perception elaborately defined by secondhand, and somewhat scrambled, neuronal data.

In the former, your subjectivity reveals a satisfactory picture of the external world of objects; in the latter, the subjective takes a fictional route where perception becomes an expression of subconscious schemas and retained information. The illusory worlds in dreams have no objective reality---in this sense we may say what is perceived isn't real---even if such experiences emulate the ones constrained by the act of sensing objective reality itself. :twisted:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

lucidé
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Re: What if the Dream World is a...

Postby lucidé » 19 Nov 2017 06:41

Marix wrote:I see your points. But lucid dreaming and dreaming can hardly be regarded as the same. When you constitute characters and kill them in a lucid dream, you are in charge of your world and of course no one will be harmed in real life. When you have a normal dream though, you cannot decide what happens and you believe it to be real at the time. Can you feel pain in dreams? Because to me every emotion including pain is real when I am dreaming.


Not quite.
When I first started lucid dreaming as a child, I wasn't able to control my dreams at first just because I was way too young and experienced to know how to control them. Even though I wasn't able to control them at age 3, I still understood they weren't real.
Even in my lucid dreams back then and now, I feel emotions like I would in real life. Often I am allowed to feel them even more in lucid dreams, because expressing emotions or how you often really feel about something in real life is grounds for great criticism and harsh bullying.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g


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