Questions about Lucid Dreaming

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Kas_Can_Fly
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Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby Kas_Can_Fly » 12 Aug 2013 10:01

Hi there, I wasn't sure whether to put this as my introduction or as a beginners post but as it is going to essentially be questions, I figured here was probably the best place to put it - although feel free to move it if I'm wrong!

Ok, so, I'm uneducated about Lucid Dreaming and whilst some of my future questions might pertain only to generic queries, my initial questions are personally relating to me. I have PTSD and various other conditions including a dissociative disorder stemming from over a decade of Complex childhood abuse.

One of the many ways this affects me is nightmares, which is where Lucid Dreaming comes in. If I could in reduce my nightmares I would be very much relieved and LD'ing definitely seems to be something worth looking into for that.

Problem number 1: On a personal issue I have a problem, my nightmares relate to my abuse and abusers, if that were lucid, I'm fearful that it would be more re-traumatising rather than helpful. I do understand that LD'ing is supposed to be you being conscious that you are dreaming and that you have control over your dreams, I also understand there is such a thing as Lucid Nightmares where that control is lost, however you are aware that you are dreaming. I am terrified of the idea of my nightmares being more vivid and/or me being able to remember them better. How common are Lucid Nightmares and in a case with PTSD would LD'ing be helpful to control general nightmares or treacherous, possibly exposing you to more than you can handle? As it stands my sleep is riddled with nightmares and I wake up many times every night from them, with varying degrees of remembrance, but sleep still feels a little safer than being awake where instead I get flashbacks and panic attacks, if I lucid dream will it seem more dangerous when I sleep?

Problem number 2: When I'm awake, my dissociation affects me to the extent whether I wonder if (and often am convinced) I am dreaming, I don't really know reality exists when I'm awake, even more so around sleeping and waking - I've woken up and thought I was still dreaming or on a few occasions, dead before - on one incident several hours passed and I was more than a little pissed off that my Social Worker phoned me in my new found afterlife and it took most of the rest of the day to realise I was awake. I am scared on a daily basis of waking up and being back when the abuse was still going and also separately of not waking up and another part of me waking up and I would not be in control of my own body. If I have so little hold on reality should I be messing with making my dreams more real, won't this add to the confusion or will in fact help?

Problem number 3: I'm tired when I wake up, exhausted from the previous night, it's a never ending cycle of tiredness. I feel oddly both too aware and barely aware of anything at the same time. If I lucid dream will I not be more tired in the morning from having been conscious during my sleep? Can I choose to dream normally after gaining the ability to dream lucidly?

And finally from what you've read here (obviously depending on your answers), do you think that Lucid Dreaming could be helpful for me/something that I should consider or do you think I should avoid it at all costs?

Thanks for reading, sorry for the length!

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Jacob46719
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Location: Equestria

Re: Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby Jacob46719 » 12 Aug 2013 18:16

I can only answer 3.

You will not be more tired in the morning from being lucid, as it doesn't matter what you do while you dream, as long as you dream. Your REM cycles with determine how tired you will be.

Yes, you can still very easily dream normally.
Never underestimate the power of the ponies.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby deschainXIX » 12 Aug 2013 18:59

Actually, if I lucid dream the night before I awake feeling even MORE rejuvenated. You're so stoked that about the lucid dream that you're just so full of energy and imagination for the whole day.
Well said.

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Jacob46719
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Re: Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby Jacob46719 » 12 Aug 2013 19:16

deschainXIX wrote:Actually, if I lucid dream the night before I awake feeling even MORE rejuvenated. You're so stoked that about the lucid dream that you're just so full of energy and imagination for the whole day.


same here!
Never underestimate the power of the ponies.

Oneirophile
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Joined: 24 Apr 2012 14:04

Re: Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby Oneirophile » 12 Aug 2013 20:47

do you think that Lucid Dreaming could be helpful for me/something that I should consider or do you think I should avoid it at all costs?
You want to stop nightmares?

You've fortunately come to the right place:

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/escaping-from-nightmares.html

I'm sure it will work for you. It works for everyone eventually and if if they let it.

Kas_Can_Fly
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Re: Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby Kas_Can_Fly » 13 Aug 2013 10:18

Thanks for the responses so far, it does seem however that you're all overlooking the only reasons I had against it with no information either way. I'm really looking for less encouragement to jump into something that could be potentially dangerous for me without looking into the potential risks and if possible how to minimise them. I already know that it might be something worth trying but the concerns I have can't be willed away. My brain simply doesn't work the way a normal persons does, it haunts and attacks a, it tries tricking me and leads me into all sorts of trouble. I can't control it or my own thought processes and I am scared that if I can't do that while awake then how will I be able to do that when I am asleep. My questions are serious and very, very important to whether I will research and/or attempt to LD. Has anyone with (or even anyone who knows someone with) serious complex trauma, PTSD or dissociative issues had experience with LD'ing and did/do they have any fears and how did it work out for you (them)?

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deschainXIX
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Re: Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby deschainXIX » 13 Aug 2013 16:37

Okay, I decided to answer all of the questions ... just .... because ....
Problem Number 1: I think that becoming lucid in these nightmares is the only way for them to go away. Wouldn't you rather be experiencing that and knowing that it's all a dream, it's not real, rather than experiencing that and thinking, "Oh Jesus, it's happening again," because you think it IS real? Also, when people have recurring nightmares like these, they get rid of them by "defeating" the person/thing that is haunting them. It will help you to become lucid and either kill, beat up, or reconcile with your abusers. This, I believe, will end the nightmares for good.

Problem Number 2: Actually, lucid dreaming makes you more and more aware of the difference between reality and nonreality. In my life, I have never had a deeper understanding of what is real, and what is not. Lucid dreaming is essentially the practice of differentiating reality from not. This WILL help you to sort your brain out more, I think.

Problem Number 3: No, not at all. For one thing, lucid dreaming leaves you with the same amount of replenishment as normal dreaming. And moreover (as I said before) it leaves you even more energetic. :D



My overall opinion: GO FOR THE LUCID DREAMING. IT WILL HELP. Lucid dreaming had never had negative effects on people. I'd also recommend getting into some therapy, if you're not already :) It's very helpful!
Well said.

Kas_Can_Fly
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Re: Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby Kas_Can_Fly » 13 Aug 2013 19:03

Thank you for your reply deschainXIX,

Dissociation makes me feel detached and the things I experience from dissociation vary from being on autopilot for much of what I do, staring of into the distance completely unable to move my stare, feeling like I'm trapped between the two worlds and as a result a part of and also not a part of either of them, I can't feel pain, everything is less colourful, I lose hours and hours on end on a daily basis, I can't remember getting dressed or sometimes going out (I ended up 200 miles away on a train once when I suddenly came aware, my brain was safely taking me to a friends but aaaaggh!) but I am and that's always a surprise, I can't connect the dots of my own memory and I've ceased to exist, like I'm turned off in a very literal sense or tuned into the wrong radio station - actually it's more like I'm tuned into white noise and everyone else has a station

Depersonalisation makes me feel like I'm watching myself do things but have no control over whatever it is that I'm doing, other times I feel as if I'm living someone else's life except I know that's not the case, but it doesn't feel like it's me. It feels like the world has become vague/hazy - I just can't grab hold of anything, nothing makes sense, it's kind of dreamlike and less real, and everything seems to be lacking significance. Also recognitions of my own sense of self become less stable and it's really difficult to remember every day things or anything linearly.

Derealisation is similar but rather than self directed, they are world directed. The world feels alien like I'm looking through a camera, mild fisheye lens, fog, or in more extreme cases through binoculars that are round the wrong way (but instead of blackness, its like a weird filmy fogginess). For me I get this more when I'm panicked and sometimes it seems like the walls or floor are rippling, that the floor is going to fall away. I'm scared and the more scared I get the worse it gets.

Then there's the PTSD side, I have flashbacks they're as real as anything gets I experience everything as if I was back then, it's not just seeing something, it's entirely reliving it, feeling the pain, feeling small not belittled but physically small, smells, touch, sight everything is back there it's incredibly unpleasant and I think I'm scared that a Lucid Dream would be much more like a flashback than a dream. I honestly have real issues with knowing that I'm awake. Some of my nightmares are positive dreams, but with subliminal messaging in them which is the hardest or subtle hints that impact me.

I am seeking therapy. Maybe I will talk to my social worker/doctor or therapist to see what is suggested.

All in all incredibly difficult to live with and on top of all of that I'm so filled with self-doubt that even though I know I'm awake I can't really trust myself to believe anything I think which means I'm incredibly confused all the time. I would love to reduce the nightmares but really I don't know if the possibility of a good thing is worth the risk of adding yet another bad thing - my sleep bad as it is, is better than being awake because I'm so tired and even if I wake up, I wake tired, at least mostly I don't remember my nightmares or not for too long, they sort of fade, they're just constant. I'm concerned that by making them more real that I not only risking making my sleep more terrifying than it already is, but add another level of confusion to my awake life too. I think I do want to be able to LD but only if I know I can do it safely and it will help, but I'm too confused. At the moment maybe I just need to wait and some time longer thinking about it.

Thanks again.

Kas_Can_Fly
Posts: 5
Joined: 12 Aug 2013 09:22

Re: Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby Kas_Can_Fly » 13 Aug 2013 19:04

Thank you for your reply deschainXIX,

Dissociation makes me feel detached and the things I experience from dissociation vary from being on autopilot for much of what I do, staring of into the distance completely unable to move my stare, feeling like I'm trapped between the two worlds and as a result a part of and also not a part of either of them, I can't feel pain, everything is less colourful, I lose hours and hours on end on a daily basis, I can't remember getting dressed or sometimes going out (I ended up 200 miles away on a train once when I suddenly came aware, my brain was safely taking me to a friends but aaaaggh!) but I am and that's always a surprise, I can't connect the dots of my own memory and I've ceased to exist, like I'm turned off in a very literal sense or tuned into the wrong radio station - actually it's more like I'm tuned into white noise and everyone else has a station

Depersonalisation makes me feel like I'm watching myself do things but have no control over whatever it is that I'm doing, other times I feel as if I'm living someone else's life except I know that's not the case, but it doesn't feel like it's me. It feels like the world has become vague/hazy - I just can't grab hold of anything, nothing makes sense, it's kind of dreamlike and less real, and everything seems to be lacking significance. Also recognitions of my own sense of self become less stable and it's really difficult to remember every day things or anything linearly.

Derealisation is similar but rather than self directed, they are world directed. The world feels alien like I'm looking through a camera, mild fisheye lens, fog, or in more extreme cases through binoculars that are round the wrong way (but instead of blackness, its like a weird filmy fogginess). For me I get this more when I'm panicked and sometimes it seems like the walls or floor are rippling, that the floor is going to fall away. I'm scared and the more scared I get the worse it gets.

Then there's the PTSD side, I have flashbacks they're as real as anything gets I experience everything as if I was back then, it's not just seeing something, it's entirely reliving it, feeling the pain, feeling small not belittled but physically small, smells, touch, sight everything is back there it's incredibly unpleasant and I think I'm scared that a Lucid Dream would be much more like a flashback than a dream. I honestly have real issues with knowing that I'm awake. Some of my nightmares are positive dreams, but with subliminal messaging in them which is the hardest or subtle hints that impact me.

I am seeking therapy. Maybe I will talk to my social worker/doctor or therapist to see what is suggested.

All in all incredibly difficult to live with and on top of all of that I'm so filled with self-doubt that even though I know I'm awake I can't really trust myself to believe anything I think which means I'm incredibly confused all the time. I would love to reduce the nightmares but really I don't know if the possibility of a good thing is worth the risk of adding yet another bad thing - my sleep bad as it is, is better than being awake because I'm so tired and even if I wake up, I wake tired, at least mostly I don't remember my nightmares or not for too long, they sort of fade, they're just constant. I'm concerned that by making them more real that I not only risking making my sleep more terrifying than it already is, but add another level of confusion to my awake life too. I think I do want to be able to LD but only if I know I can do it safely and it will help, but I'm too confused. At the moment maybe I just need to wait and some time longer thinking about it.

Thanks again.

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taniaaust1
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Questions about Lucid Dreaming

Postby taniaaust1 » 14 Aug 2013 04:13

deschainXIX wrote:Okay, I decided to answer all of the questions ... just .... because ....
Problem Number 1: I think that becoming lucid in these nightmares is the only way for them to go away. Wouldn't you rather be experiencing that and knowing that it's all a dream, it's not real, rather than experiencing that and thinking, "Oh Jesus, it's happening again," because you think it IS real? Also, when people have recurring nightmares like these, they get rid of them by "defeating" the person/thing that is haunting them. It will help you to become lucid and either kill, beat up, or reconcile with your abusers. This, I believe, will end the nightmares for good.

Problem Number 2: Actually, lucid dreaming makes you more and more aware of the difference between reality and nonreality. In my life, I have never had a deeper understanding of what is real, and what is not. Lucid dreaming is essentially the practice of differentiating reality from not. This WILL help you to sort your brain out more, I think.

Problem Number 3: No, not at all. For one thing, lucid dreaming leaves you with the same amount of replenishment as normal dreaming. And moreover (as I said before) it leaves you even more energetic. :D



My overall opinion: GO FOR THE LUCID DREAMING. IT WILL HELP. Lucid dreaming had never had negative effects on people. I'd also recommend getting into some therapy, if you're not already :) It's very helpful!


I thought this post was very dangerous as it wasnt at all directed to the others situation but rather directed to someone who hasnt got mental health issues which clearly isnt the case for the one asking the question.

Problem Number 1: I think that becoming lucid in these nightmares is the only way for them to go away. Wouldn't you rather be experiencing that and knowing that it's all a dream, it's not real, rather than experiencing that and thinking, "Oh Jesus, it's happening again," because you think it IS real?


A person who has PTSD in real life can think that things from the past are real and experience it all happening again, they cant distingish at times between reality and the past (have incidences where it can be impossible to separate the two)... so how on earth would they distinguish between still being just in a LD and a PTSD flashback which they think is real??? (emotions are even stronger in LDs then they are in real life so having a PTSD flashback in an LD :shock: , you wouldnt want to go there. I dont think there would be no way to control the dream in this situation, the subconciousness which gives the person the flashback in real life, is very likely to be way too strong). Normal people often struggle to control their LD mightmare situations, without that problem being one so strong that they dont have any control with it in real life either with.

Problem Number 2: Actually, lucid dreaming makes you more and more aware of the difference between reality and nonreality. In my life, I have never had a deeper understanding of what is real, and what is not. Lucid dreaming is essentially the practice of differentiating reality from not.


There are many at this site in which LD has made them more confused of what is real and what isnt as their LDs feel like reality too. Several people here could put up thier hands if I asked "who here thinks that LDs are real?".

I know I myself have had a dreadful time separating reality from dreams one time when I got stuck in a reincurring FA situation. This situation with my life repeating over and over in the dream with me thinking I'd finally managed to wake up and break the dream each time, got to the point in which when I FINALLY DID wake up, I then didnt really know if the physical reality was real or not or just another FA I was having. It took me many HOURS of real life physical reality before I finally managed to convince myself I was really awake. It wouldnt take much at all to add to worsens someones situation of already feeling unsure in real life what is real and what isnt. And that unknowing when it occurs, is horrific (a nightmare).

For the reasons above, there is a very real risk that this stuff could make that poster even more confused and could make their mental health far worst then it is now.

Kas.. it would be unlikely that your doctor or social worker would know much about LDs. You'd be best to keep seeking out those who have the issue you do as bad as you do, to see if there are any who are doing LD. There may not be for good reasons.

I have a bad past and have a bit of PTSD too but mine is very slight as Ive only had one major flashback in real life so arent at risk of really having a flashback while im in a LD. I've also had a a couple of experiences with derealisation too (some crazy events in my life which were real, didnt help this at all) but once again, no where near to the point you have and only went throu a stage where I had that just a little (probably set off by the weird psychic etc experiences I'd been having.. stuff like that can end up making one not sure of what is real and what isnt).

Anyway.. my suggest is to dont try to do LD in your current state. Its likely to be too nightmarsh for you to control and you could further traumatise yourself by having you relive it more often. Instead why dont you just work on meditating and visualising your experiences as being different to what they were, like trying to imprint new memories over them (dont do this thou if it triggers off PTSD espisodes). Also if you havent tried it, hypnosis with a trained good therapist may help

Yes LD can help those who have nightmares but that may not necessarily at all apply to those who have PTSD so cant control or those who have mental health issues. eg if someone was schizophrenic would you expect LD to help them? With LD one is dealing with the unconsciousness and the unconsciousness in a very messed up person .. is just not going to be how ours is. Their thoughts etc.. already cant be controlled.

Its like any health issue, what may be healthy for most may not at all be healthy for ones with certain health conditions. eg peanuts are healthy for most, give a peanut to one who has peanut allergy and one could be destroyed/killed. I have a health condition in which exercise is very unhealthy for me (instead of increasing my blood oxygen, getting me fitter, improving my brain.. etc it lowers everything). You cant place the same healthy rules onto those who have actual medical medical conditions. Expose a PTSD person to what traumatised them in the first place more, good idea? :shock:
The only thing to fear is the fear itself


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