Where are our Dreams?

For general lucid chat - ask questions, share advice, set lucid dream challenges and explore the lucid realm together.
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Ryan
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby Ryan » 12 Feb 2012 00:57

Peter wrote:very good and yes it all over the place. I suggest we let Rebecca moderate the forum and ignore the stuff we dont like as Its bound to happen and more from time to time. I would rather let the discussions roll an not let any tiffs between members polarize us in mistakly taking sides. Even getting annoyed with the banter is taking a side so just ignore it all and let them sort it out. Rebecca has the last word and I am sure she can handle it

Indeed! And allow me to apologize publicly for my little outburst earlier. It was very uncalled for and won't happen again. Being a moderator myself, I should know better to not get caught up in discussions. Being a human being, I know it happens from time to time. :)

HAGART wrote:It truly felt real when it was happening though.... but THIS FEELS REAL TOO.... AND MAYBE IT ISN'T! or is it? It all depends all how you perceive reality and dream. I actually don't see much distinction between the two...

As mentioned, it's all "real". Anything you can experience is, for the most part, "real". But then you have to ask yourself "What is real?" :)

I'm becoming less and less amazed each time I have non-physical experiences and I take note of the nuances of the reality I'm experiencing. Suffice to say that my non-physical experiences (aka dreams, lucid dreams and projections) are every bit as real as this physical reality is to me right now.
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 12 Feb 2012 01:21

Ryan wrote:As mentioned, it's all "real". Anything you can experience is, for the most part, "real". But then you have to ask yourself "What is real?"


"What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain." Morpheus

Even before my first serious Ld, I was beginning to question the whole concept of reality. Then I had 2 non-lucid dreams where in each dream, a dream character proved to me that I couldn't tell the difference between waking reality and dream reality. Now after having several Lds I'm questioning it even more. At this point, I'm starting to believe that the only thing that's real is your experience of reality. I saw someone wearing a t-shirt that said "deny everything" and I laughed, but the only thing I can't deny is that I'm conscious and having experiences.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby Peter » 12 Feb 2012 03:18

It’s true that in a LD a dream character can convince you that you are not dreaming but not true? That in waking life you can be convinced you are dreaming. So I think that while you are conscious and I might as well make that alive and conscious this may be a very basic state that really means little. A plant may be conscious by this definition but what is different is the level of awareness. I find it very easy to do something like come inside and say to myself "I have now put my keys on top of the coffee tin in the pantry" and do this for an exercise at times. Now when I want my keys if I think "key" then instantly I will get the answer as I have seeded the reply and it just need a prompt to come back, it just appears without effort. But If is say tonight when I see something odd in a dream I will question it and I can pick something that happens a lot - most of the time nothing I miss the sign and all the other odd stuff in our dreams. So in both instances we are conscious but have vastly different levels of awareness. I would like to understand this awareness better as I think there may be better ways to use the level and type of awareness in the dream to make links to getting lucid. What we do now is to hit and miss and gives poor results.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 12 Feb 2012 05:02

Peter wrote:It’s true that in a LD a dream character can convince you that you are not dreaming but not true? That in waking life you can be convinced you are dreaming.


The DCs only offered a suggestion that I might be dreaming and that I should consider that, but I insisted I was not and could tell the difference. So if I was wrong about that, maybe I'm also wrong about waking reality, who knows.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Ryan
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby Ryan » 12 Feb 2012 05:35

lucidinthe sky wrote:
Peter wrote:It’s true that in a LD a dream character can convince you that you are not dreaming but not true? That in waking life you can be convinced you are dreaming.


The DCs only offered a suggestion that I might be dreaming and that I should consider that, but I insisted I was not and could tell the difference. So if I was wrong about that, maybe I'm also wrong about waking reality, who knows.

I personally don't believe you (we're) wrong about waking reality... I think we're wrong about the dream reality. :)

I've always known there was a lot more going on than "just a dream".
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KylePK
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby KylePK » 12 Feb 2012 08:30

I too am starting to question reality, after having several vivid dreams and only ONE lucid dream. I notice things or see things in the world differently, and have to wonder... what is real and what is not? Its odd, to sometimes have trouble differentiating between real life and a dream in terms of the things you experience. For example, things that I see in a dream appear exactly the same in real life, as do the things I do in a dream. Last night, I had a violent dream that panned out so realistically I had to do a mental double take when I woke up to make sure it was a dream.
Striving to live free and enlightened in every way.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 12 Feb 2012 18:16

We know we can control what happens in dream life, but I'm starting to wonder how much of what's happening in waking life that we are controlling. It looks to me like we're controlling more than we think.

Having lucid dreams is really strange because it's like there are two people there, one that is having the dream and the other that is watching and sometimes directing. Makes you wonder, who are these two people?
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Ryan
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby Ryan » 12 Feb 2012 18:52

Physical reality also becomes a lot more cloudy when you start looking at it from the Quantum level. :)

lucidinthe sky wrote:We know we can control what happens in dream life, but I'm starting to wonder how much of what's happening in waking life that we are controlling. It looks to me like we're controlling more than we think.

Having lucid dreams is really strange because it's like there are two people there, one that is having the dream and the other that is watching and sometimes directing. Makes you wonder, who are these two people?

My guess is your "Conscious" and "Subconscious" minds. :)

Through my experiences, I've come to the conclusion that the more your conscious mind is active, the less your subconscious mind is active. A lucid awareness experience, to me, is when those two are both active roughly 50%.

A full astral experience is when you subconscious mind is completely off and your conscious mind has full control. Likewise a dream experience is the opposite.
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Summerlander
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby Summerlander » 13 Feb 2012 03:01

A full astral experience is when you subconscious mind is completely off and your conscious mind has full control. Likewise a dream experience is the opposite.


I disagree with this. This is very black and white when the reality is very different. The conscious mind is quite capable of having full control in a lucid dream and if the environment is intensified through deepening, then sensations are not different to being awake. The subconscious, however, may still play a role in manifesting and maintaing the environment before you, especially if it is random and not chosen.

The dream experience is not necessarily the opposite. You are being swayed and certainly the suconscious is dominant, but, the conscious mind is still present even if it is scarse. What fails to act is the logical mind as one mindlessly accepts whatever happens in dreams even if it is absurd.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Ryan
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Re: Where are our Dreams?

Postby Ryan » 13 Feb 2012 05:31

Summerlander wrote:I disagree with this. This is very black and white when the reality is very different.

It's not very black and white at all. There are as many steps in between those ranges as you can imagine. Anywhere from fully conscious to fully subconscious, and every step inbetween.

The conscious mind is quite capable of having full control in a lucid dream and if the environment is intensified through deepening, then sensations are not different to being awake. The subconscious, however, may still play a role in manifesting and maintaing the environment before you, especially if it is random and not chosen.

You're confusing my terminology with your own. I'm only trying to make general comparisons here. When I say "Conscious mind has full control", I mean you have a full waking consciousness, like what you have right now while reading my post. Likewise, the "Subconscious mind having control" is when you're experiencing a dream awareness in the non-physical (aka: you're the actor not knowing you're in a play).

The dream experience is not necessarily the opposite. You are being swayed and certainly the subconscious is dominant, but, the conscious mind is still present even if it is scarse. What fails to act is the logical mind as one mindlessly accepts whatever happens in dreams even if it is absurd.

In this post, you're calling it the logical mind... I'm calling it the subconscious. We're just using different terms here Summerlander. The metaphors are identical. Ah, the problem of language, showing again. :)
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