Visualization Inquiry

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flairina
Posts: 21
Joined: 14 Aug 2011 01:21

Visualization Inquiry

Postby flairina » 07 Aug 2014 01:52

Okay, so, I've been trying and failing at lucid dreaming for roughly six years now, and here's a question I've never thought to ask. The type of visualization used for WILDS, hypnagogic imagery molding, and pretty much everything else- which type is it?

If that doesn't make much sense, I'll elaborate. The way visualization has worked for me throughout my life is that when I "see" an object, being, or landscape in my mind, it is confined to the "boundaries" of my own head. So, say I envision a skyscraper; the skyscraper will be scaled to fit within the boundaries of my usual field of vision, even with my eyelids closed. Same for landscapes and other objects.

Now, what makes me curious if this is "wrong" for lucid dreaming is the fact that according to what some people (like my dad) describe, as well as parts of this website's visualization guide, visualization should entail envisioning everything around yourself. I can do that easily as well (or at least, I'm pretty sure I can), but it isn't what I do if put on the spot- as in, if you ask me what my front door looks like, I'll get a scaled picture of it in my head, not a picture of it as if it standing in front of me. But other people may use this style just as instinctively, and I'd have no way of knowing.

I'm beginning to think this could be one of the major reasons I have had little-to-no success in lucid dreaming, as my visualization style likely affects how my dreams seem to typically work. Most of the time I have "movie" style dreams, as if I'm watching them from the inside of my eyelids. Half the time I'm not even in the actual dream itself- when I am, it's still "scaled" to fit, not necessarily being small, but not carrying a real sense of "hugeness" even when the actual landscape technically is. Think of it like watching a huge landscape unfold in a movie or show- unless you're in a movie theater, sprawling areas don't really "feel" immense, because it can only be as big as the screen permits. The more of the area shown, the smaller it has to be, and at mid or close range perspective you can't really be aware of what's currently offscreen. In my dreams, it's more like I'm seeing from and acting in the place of a movie or game character, as opposed to actually "being" there, if that makes any sense. Like, I'm "there", but more in the sense of being in "control" of a first (often even third) person perspective character that happens to look like me, while the real me is a sort of floating presence just watching the screen or story this is taking place on. I only see, and usually don't hear, taste, smell, or touch, though when something is "said" I still understand it somehow.

This is why even when I rarely get lucidity, it frustrates me, as it isn't "really" lucidity. It's like watching "myself" become lucid, but only be aware I CAN do things, and not actually do them, because I'm still following along with the "movie" on dream logic. Last time I had lucidity, it took the form of telling me that I was in a dream WITHIN the dream, and I only knew of the second layer. I eventually "woke up" in the dream, as expected, and went right back to not knowing what was really going on. Hence why I'd assume that in most lucid dreams, instead of getting the "movie" style, things are closer to how my dad experiences them. He feels as if he is actually there, in whatever the environment is, just going along with the story and often having his other senses intact. Funnily enough, he feels his dream's surprisingly logical stories as if they are actual movies, the difference being that he feels as if he's in the movie, while I feel like I'm watching a character of me (if that) in the movie.

So, my visualization style may be problematic. But I can't be certain unless I ask- which one is being used by those of you who CAN lucid dream? Particularly those of you who can do WILDs- do I "enter" a body that I've visualized in my mind, or does my waking body "become" my dreaming body? I was under the impression that you had to lose sense of your body in order to transition to the dream at all, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding how this works. Any ideas what I should be doing to fix this, if it is actualyl a problem like I suspect it to be?

Snaggle
Posts: 590
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 13:08

Re: Visualization Inquiry

Postby Snaggle » 07 Aug 2014 06:27

If that doesn't make much sense, I'll elaborate. The way visualization has worked for me throughout my life is that when I "see" an object, being, or landscape in my mind, it is confined to the "boundaries" of my own head. So, say I envision a skyscraper; the skyscraper will be scaled to fit within the boundaries of my usual field of vision, even with my eyelids closed. Same for landscapes and other objects.

Now, what makes me curious if this is "wrong" for lucid dreaming is the fact that according to what some people (like my dad) describe, as well as parts of this website's visualization guide, visualization should entail envisioning everything around yourself. I can do that easily as well (or at least, I'm pretty sure I can), but it isn't what I do if put on the spot- as in, if you ask me what my front door looks like, I'll get a scaled picture of it in my head, not a picture of it as if it standing in front of me. But other people may use this style just as instinctively, and I'd have no way of knowing.


Visualization is creating what one sees according to will. What you're talking about is your field of vision, viewpoint and dream absorption. Field of vision in lucid dreams is not limited as in waking life. One can: zoom in or zoom out; switch the point one is seeing the object/dreamscape from; change the size of the object; move the object around instead of your viewpoint or completely transfrom the object almost instantly. It does not matter what stage of dreaming on is either: hypnagogia; NREM dreams or REM dreams.

Most entries into Lucid Dreams start with a very simple and normal viewpoint of just watching something before one like one is just standing there looking or watching a movie. Changing ones viewpoint is something one has to choose to do (AKA it's a kind of dream control) and so to a lesser degree is becoming absorped into the dream. Dream absorption happens when one enters into the dreamscape and interacts with it from the first person viewpoint as if it were real; even when absorped one can pull oneself out of the first person VP into a third person VP or to a universal VP or even pull yourself out of the dreamscape altogether seeing it once again as just a "movie" that one is watching from within ones real body; though ones "real body" is a dream body too often.

There's also no reason to just view one dream at a time either or be just one character if absorbed into the dream.

The short answer to your question is multiple types of absorption and viewpoint can and are used in the same lucid dream by people who can WILD. The halodeck type of absorption and viewpoint is only one possibility and one can chance it at will. Will yourself into the dream.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel


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