Occult Dream Theory

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Summerlander
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby Summerlander » 26 Apr 2017 10:04

nickbor wrote:its ok lucide I accept youre apology and i meant no offense to anyone if someone is offended by the biggest religeon in todays time thats a lot of people and they are the type i hope who like me will forgive summmerlander and survive and even respect what he want which is a right to take som stance


I don't need to be forgiven. :D

but god does this thing which he already told me because of some people innocently like to kid around and tell lies as a joke or something, while others demand strict rules and prophecy or proof or something god created something where economicallly were supposed to be appesed. and even some who influencal people know how god works by experience. god does not forsake anyone who wants a sense of humor.


If a god created everything, and He is supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, then He is responsible for everything that happens and intended it. Which means He is also responsible for evil. :twisted:

but it is ususally serious people who get angry about something that god can forgive feelings which sometimes we can have that lead to nothing positive. this is why when a young population want to stand up for itself or focus on issues or some pet peve or percieved sin because of something I hope you realize I have basically survived something because of god. god grants me a right to live for some while and offers me my redemption and freedom


The concepts of 'sin' and 'forgiveness' are incompatible with the notion of an omnipotent god. Those who infract can always say to their Maker on the day of reckoning: 'My lord, I did sin but You made me do it!'

Your god makes no sense. :ugeek:

at the same time which gives me athority to forgive things which are offenses of summerlander based on no real enlightened experience just reading bhuddist scripture which the buddha told his followers to not write stuff down.


I'm not even a Buddhist! :lol:

I have experience with lucid dreaming, meditation and psychedelics. I've had countless profound experiences which could be regarded as 'spiritual', 'numinous' and 'epiphanic'. But I know that they are just products of brain activity. I'm not deluded by them like you, pal! :D

God didn't tell you jack. That voice in your head is a product of brain activity. Get it checked if it persists. Oh, and don't have kids lest that voice tells you to murder them like it did with Abraham regarding his son Isaac. Abraham would have been committed in this day and age. :lol:

but me like i said i know from spiritual experience and i can tell when i do this thing around anyone and its some other christian and i just sit there and love them unconditionally with my immortal soul they feel it. i dont say i love you when i dont really feel the love. the point of my faith is to practice something which keeps me free alive at peace at times and compassionate when needed, but passionate unconditional love where to the spiritaul observes whom is a bit psycic perciving me would see me as a white loving spiritual being of light. there are problems in my life i usually deal tith it by using an enlightened tolerance to deal with them


Christianity started out as a Jewish sect which was promoted by Flavius Valerius Constantinus in order to keep the populace fearful and submissive. It's a bunch of lies from the common era. You only believe because you've been brainwashed since an age when you hadn't even developed reason. :geek:

Your brain was simply hardwired to believe what your parents told you. It's an evolutionary trait which promoted the survival of our species throughout millennia. 'Don't go near the cliff, little Nicky!' 'Yes mum, yes dad!'

The problem is that this trait can lead to mental manacles that prevent kids from thinking for themselves. It happens when parents lie to kids or when adults indoctrinate them with misologistic beliefs. ISIS sends their kids on suicide-homicide missions by promising them a hedonic heaven. It's the power of belief which some people use to their advantage.

You don't know this yet, nickbor, but deep down, you don't really believe---you merely want to believe in a god and a spiritual realm so badly because it consoles you. Like most people, you are afraid of death so you pretend it'll be something to look forward to---the beginning of a new and beautiful chapter. It's straightforward psychology; very Freudian.

When you were a baby, you didn't believe in God. The concept couldn't possibly have entered your head yet. Every creature on Earth is born an atheist. Then, many of us are introduced to the lie and made to believe it without question. It evens becomes offensive to the pious to disbelieve it or to even suggest that there might not be such a thing after all. :|
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

lucidé
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby lucidé » 26 Apr 2017 17:16

Did you check your PMs yet? I sent you a message. I would strongly recommend you continue your discussion in the PMs if you don't want Summerlander to keep bashing on you.

nickbor wrote:its ok lucide I accept youre apology and i meant no offense to anyone if someone is offended by the biggest religeon in todays time thats a lot of people and they are the type i hope who like me will forgive summmerlander and survive and even respect what he want which is a right to take som stance

At least he isn't requesting a government order to allow anyone in your religion or organization to be legally executed. It could be way worse than just being offended.

but god does this thing which he already told me because of some people innocently like to kid around and tell lies as a joke or something, while others demand strict rules and prophecy or proof or something god created something where economicallly were supposed to be appesed.

Seriously? You are accusing me of doing wrong things when I never did any of that. I don't argue for evidence in subjects like Summerlander doesn, nor do I tell lies as a joke. One thing I hate is being accused of things I did.
even some who influencal people know how god works by experience. god does not forsake anyone who wants a sense of humor. but it is ususally serious people who get angry about something that god can forgive feelings which sometimes we can have that lead to nothing positive.

I don't think anyone is ever capable of forgiving the types of feelings or lack of control of the emotions I have. Not when I go from calm one minute to snapping at someone within a matter of seconds or much worse.

god grants me a right to live for some while and offers me my redemption and freedom at the same time which gives me athority to forgive things which are offenses of summerlander based on no real enlightened experience


I am doubtful for some of the really horrible things I have done in my life, I will ever be forgiven for them. Besides, I was "condemned" to go to Hades because of an event that happened last fall that condemned me to go there. Not that I did anything really bad BTW.
I could forgive things as well, although there are people way worse than Summerlander out there that have ticked me off. I no longer have the urge to beat up that psychopath who murdered my 3 year old cousin anymore for example. I got over it.

just reading bhuddist scripture which the buddha told his followers to not write stuff down.

This is true! There are some of my lucid dreams I don't ever put down in a dream journal, just because I don't want anyone to ever know about them. The public should never know about those lucid dreams. Then there are some of them that are simply kept in private.

like i said i know from spiritual experience and i can tell when i do this thing around anyone and its some other christian and i just sit there and love them unconditionally with my immortal soul they feel it. i dont say i love you when i dont really feel the love. the point of my faith is to practice something which keeps me free alive at peace at times and compassionate when needed, but passionate unconditional love where to the spiritaul observes whom is a bit psycic perciving me would see me as a white loving spiritual being of light. there are problems in my life i usually deal tith it by using an enlightened tolerance to deal with them


Many people from Utah always seek to care about others, no matter who or what they are. They even grow our own food and make their own clothing not only so they can feed our own homeless, but often when there is a natural disaster somewhere else, people from Utah are sometimes on the scene quickly, with supplies from there ready. There's always someone (myself included) out there in Utah willing to feed the homeless, help someone across the street, or do some other good deed.


you are afraid of death so you pretend it'll be something to look forward to---the beginning of a new and beautiful chapter.


Like I told you before Summerlander, I really, and I mean really, DON'T want to go unconscious. I would do just about anything to avoid that and end up in an indefinite lucid dream instead.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

nickbor
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby nickbor » 26 Apr 2017 17:53

Actually summerlander my beleif was like you i didnk know i was more agnostic but i had a spiritual sense of self. i paid attention to news on tv and i have empathy for feelings all across the world. something was wrong governments fell or people tresspassed over some issue i could see it and feel it. I meditated as a therapy to be different and find my peace i left my body and came back. my belief in spiritual immortality lies on my quest to calm down. i beat my temptations at the same time for a while. not everybody honestly want to be like me and thats not the way it should be im different. whrere i live there are many churches here weve made a good life for ourselves and its not a place where things are collapsing into chaos. we pray basically for something which works where if you arent evil but a bit sinfull there is redemption for any one whom wants it you would just have to pray with others or find it one day ther is love on a good day at the church ive been to thats more than what others have to offer. ive had a very real experience where the love was so strong i support a people whom pray to be saved from the fall of civilization where here in america some instead of revolt go to a rock concert this is for a reason. my mom prayed the lords prayer. we ended up at disney world. i get a good life because of all this stuff people contributed to the world. whom were obeying god above all else. god and heaven are my guide now. above all authority im doing what heaven wants for i have heard better news from doctor who died and was brought back to life in modern day he validated me. he was a non beleiver but a good man and seemed very humble on tv. he said he was unconditionally loved there in heaven. i get this on earth for i prayed for that. i mean no disrespect to any one whom is a teacher. because we are all conditioned to learn something in life. i unoficially love this way because it feels goodbut when something works so well it converts people back to a god its getting a good life because people in catholic church like me and my mom pray for it while not giving into to much of lifes temptations. Im a little weak honestly sometimes but i manage.

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Summerlander
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby Summerlander » 27 Apr 2017 00:34

Fair enough. I think the Freudian analysis still applies to those people. Many convertees have profound experiences which could be regarded as 'spiritual', 'numinous' or 'epiphanic'. I, myself, as someone who has dabbled in meditation, lucid dreaming and psychedelics have had such experiences. But what convertees fail or refuse to understand is that such experiences are merely products of brain activity. They must have been unhappy about their atheism and, once they experienced the numinous they decided that was the 'evidence' they had been looking for all along. It doesn't matter to them that it's subjective; in fact, the subjective nature of such profound experiences gives them the excuse to say 'It's true to me and nobody can convince me otherwise!' It's bad epistemology which, coupled with a desire to be consoled, leads them to embrace delusion. Some people, ultimately, would rather a consoling lie than what they perceive to be a cold and harsh probable truth. I'm the opposite.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

DreamerMan99
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby DreamerMan99 » 30 Apr 2017 14:47

lucidé wrote:Did you check your PMs yet? I sent you a message. I would strongly recommend you continue your discussion in the PMs if you don't want Summerlander to keep bashing on you.


Lucide, this is NOT a good way to go about things. Hiding any dissonance on these forums will only create an echo chamber. Unlike you, even if I disagree with someone's viewpoint I enjoy debating them, as well as trying to learn more from their world view and maybe being enlightened myself of enlightening someone else.

Just because Summerlander or anyone disagrees with someone's argument, don't tell them to bring a public discussion to privacy.
Good luck,
Dream on.

lucidé
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby lucidé » 30 Apr 2017 20:34

DreamerMan99 wrote:Lucide, this is NOT a good way to go about things. Hiding any dissonance on these forums will only create an echo chamber. Unlike you, even if I disagree with someone's viewpoint I enjoy debating them, as well as trying to learn more from their world view and maybe being enlightened myself of enlightening someone else.

Just because Summerlander or anyone disagrees with someone's argument, don't tell them to bring a public discussion to privacy.


A few of these religious users I have talked with in PMs prefer to talk about some of their lucid dreams in a PM anyways, because then they don't have anyone who is going to bash them for writing about certain subjects they lucid dream about. They can write all about their lucid dreams either in PMs or on a DJ on another website, and I can freely look at them, and can have fun reading about them without the worry of someone bashing them just because they enjoy lucid dreaming about certain subjects. Really to me, this is what lucid dreaming SHOULD be all about anyways. For a user to do ANYTHING they want to, and not have to really worry about other users bashing on them for anything they decide they want to do in a lucid dream. There should be absolutely no rules and no consequences when it comes to lucid dreaming and users should be able to do anything they want and write about whatever they want without the fear of being bashed, bullied, or criticized, but I feel like some of the users fail to realize this. A few of them have even said, they feel much safer talking about specific lucid dreams in PMs than they do on the forums, because they are somewhat afraid they are going to get bashed on for talking about them, so I am doing them a huge favor by allowing them to talk about their lucid dreams in PMs or on other websites.
You may or may not know this, but I also keep a huge number of things to myself as well. Some of these things are found in an online journal I keep away from this website which it's very hard to find that online journal since it never shows up on search engines. Other things I keep in "private entries" in that online journal which even if users managed to find that online journal, they'd never know.
How do I know Summerlander or you are not one of those users that are not going to call the police and have users carted off to the psych ward? I had that happen before once many years ago (not on this forum) with a user who really didn't like my opinion on "dream spying". The cops were seriously at my door, saying a user said I was a crazy person out to kill others (when I never did anything wrong), and recommended I get psychiatric help. From what I heard, this has been happening to several religious/supernatural-believing users as well, as they have randomly had cops coming to their door from users calling the cops on them to try to get them locked into psych wards. Believe it or not, the psych wards AKA asylums WILL take just about anyone these days (so technically you could have just about anyone sent there), as they will get paid to torture just about anyone not only from the victim's insurance, but from the citizen's tax money. Many people will "suicide by cop" or suicide before the cops even get to their house if they believe they are going to end up there, as the torture you have to endure there is so horrifying, that death seems like the better alternative to having to end up there. Most people if they end up at that place, if they ever get out, mentally, they are so scarred, they are completely different people when they come out of that place. If a person got them referred there to begin with, they can then use that tactic to completely turn those mentally scarred people who barely came out into their most loyal servants, forcing them to comply with their demands ("You wouldn't want me to send you back, would you?"). Makes me wonder what would happen if we put Islam into the psych ward?
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

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Summerlander
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby Summerlander » 30 Apr 2017 21:15

I don't care about what others choose to lucid dream of. :D

But I do have a bone to pick with them when they claim to know more about their experiences than is warranted or where interpretation is concerned.

For instance: I couldn't give a monkey's if people would like to see angels and gods in their lucid dreams; whatever floats one's boat! But I will call the out on claims, from misguided certainty, that they know such experiences were not dreams and that they really made contact with the divine beyond the confines of their own mind. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

lucidé
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby lucidé » 30 Apr 2017 22:10

If they believe the experiences weren't dreams, then they aren't considered lucid dreams, now are they? In order to be a lucid dream, they must be aware of their dream.

Even when I have had confirmations I have had incidents of dream spying and dream meshing, I still don't lose my lucidity. I believe a few of us have had weird things happen in our lucid dreams, but it doesn't make them less of a lucid dream.

However if they choose to be non-lucid in their dreams, that doesn't really bother me and I am not going to let it bother me. They can talk about their dreams all they want, and I can hint when they should become lucid, but I don't let it bother me.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

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Summerlander
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby Summerlander » 01 May 2017 13:10

lucidé wrote:If they believe the experiences weren't dreams, then they aren't considered lucid dreams, now are they? In order to be a lucid dream, they must be aware of their dream.


Very true. Point taken. Believers in astral projection do reach the hybrid phase state of the brain that combines waking consciousness with dreaming. They do know that their physical bodies lie in bed while they have their experiences.

But, despite the fact that lucid dreaming also happens in said phase state (around 40Hz of brainwave activity), believers in astral projection fail to realise that the whole experience is just a dream in which they feel awake.

This is why I say that lucid dreaming is the most advanced form of the aforesaid phase state practice. Because whilst 'astral projectors' believe dream events happen outside their mind, lucid dreamers correctly identify the real nature of the illusion and have more scope for control. The so-called astral projector is more likely to be at the mercy of a dream character that resembles an angel whilst the lucid dreamer would see it as just another dream element that can be manipulated and controlled. :idea:

This is why I tell these astral projection believers that they are wrong and not really helping themselves. First, they've got no real foundation to believe in the existence of astral planes (seen as the dreaming mind can conceive anything from imagination at both conscious and subconscious levels) and second the whole belief-centric approach leads to a range of problems and much confusion:

Lack of control with the practice; old hag syndrome fear; paranoia that negative entities are after them; wondering if their souls travelled to other realms or if it was just a dream (hence the banal and tedious question on WOLD 'Was it an OBE, astral projection or lucid dream?') et cetera ...

But the phenomenon is very simple: The human brain is quite capable of achieving states of mind which combine wakefulness with dreaming. It is interpretation of the experiences in such hybrid phase states which lead to a range of misleading labels! Just be aware of the illusory nature of sleep hallucinations and you're already achieving the best and most logical way of approaching the practice. And this way about the practice warrants the legitimate label of lucid dreaming. :)


Even when I have had confirmations I have had incidents of dream spying and dream meshing, I still don't lose my lucidity. I believe a few of us have had weird things happen in our lucid dreams, but it doesn't make them less of a lucid dream.


If you know you're dreaming while you're dreaming you are lucid dreaming. It's simple. :idea:

However if they choose to be non-lucid in their dreams, that doesn't really bother me and I am not going to let it bother me. They can talk about their dreams all they want, and I can hint when they should become lucid, but I don't let it bother me.


I don't care if they fancy interpreting their sleep experiences in a deluded way, i.e. thinking that they are objectively true in different planes of existence. But I will call them out when they state to others from a misguided sense of certainty that they know for sure their views are correct. And I will also jump on them when they try to tell others that their dreams were astral projections, too.

Belief-centric notions hinder the practice of lucid dreaming for noobs. :ugeek:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

lucidé
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Re: Occult Dream Theory

Postby lucidé » 01 May 2017 16:45

There is some truth to this in a few situations in that situation at least.
I will let you know, there are really lucid dreams out there where a person will have limited controls as there have been lucid dreams I have had where I have dealt with the same. The reason being in order to have complete control, you must be in REM sleep. Like during the time I was in the EEG lab and they confirmed I was unconscious, in that lucid dream, it was also pretty well confirmed the only things I was capable of doing during that time, was flying, invisibility, observing, and maybe a few other things. In conclusion, my abilities were somewhat limited while I was supposedly unconscious. I have concluded that it isn't a coincidence that happens, that in reality if a person is unconscious or in delta sleep and they happen to pull off a dream/lucid dream, they are not going to be at full power in a lucid dream like a person who happens to have one in REM sleep, because most of the brain that would allow the controls during a very good REM sleep is unconscious.

Yes I sure wish that one newbie would have taken my advice the other day when I told him about my lucid dream, but some people don't ever want to listen
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g


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