What is the difference between LD and HB, also AP??

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Rolci
Posts: 1
Joined: 08 May 2017 09:33

What is the difference between LD and HB, also AP??

Postby Rolci » 08 May 2017 09:35

Hi guys, I have known and read a lot about LD as well as AP for over 10 years now, and this week I found out about HB - holotropic breathwork. It is described as a powerful way of inducing an altered state that is best described as psychedelic in nature. Except in the case of HB no chemical substance is necessary, simply lie down, close your eyes, set the intention, and hyperventilate for at least 20 minutes, usually for 2-3 hours as recommended. I have read and watched many reviews about this and the effect definitely seems real.

What jumped to my mind however was, OK, you lie down and stay motionless but mentally aware so you don't drift into unconscious sleep, then you feel tingling and vibration and then you see visual hallucinations. Instantly I thought of LD. I have never been able to LD. I haven't tried HB yet but intend to. It's a simple thing. To answer my question you will need to know as much about HB as you can - read about it on

http://reset.me/story/entering-psychedelic-state-without-psychedelics-inside-holotropic-breathwork/

or try it. I am not sure if being a LDer has an impact on the outcome, when you are used to intending to LD when you lie down motionless but aware. But if you try it and get a DIFFERENT result from your usual LD experience then we are onto something. If no different, then can it be bias due to being a LDer?

My main question would concern the difference between LD and HB.

Secondly, I asked a few years ago about the difference between LD and AP elsewhere, nowhere did I receive a satisfactory answer of what the difference is, if any. My problem was that both claim the same induction method - lie motionless, stay aware. So what determines which one you get? The intention? How does the mind even know what to give once the intention is set, I mean LD and AP are just labels. How are the actual experiences different?

So here we are, 3 different (or are they) altered states, same induction technique, with slight differences. (HB uses hyperventilation, but what if you lie down, close eyes, set intention, but breathe a little slower? Even slower? Will you eventually not be able to reach an altered state without HV-ing? Is there a magical line, like x litres of air per minute or x number of breaths minimum required to induce the altered state? What about smaller breaths but twice as fast? You get the idea.)

So to recap - I lie down with the intention to have an altered state of awareness, close my eyes and remain motionless and maintain wakeful awareness and after a while start seeing stuff. How do I know if I started astral projection, or this is a wake-induced lucid dream, or more like a trip, if that is different in any way even.

Thanks for your thoughts.

lucidé
Posts: 501
Joined: 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Re: What is the difference between LD and HB, also AP??

Postby lucidé » 08 May 2017 21:01

I could probably answer this one for you, since I sometimes have anxiety attacks while trying to induce a WILD without warning. In some episodes I have them, I can sometimes hyperventilate for hours, have agonizing heart burn, my pulse will rise, and my blood pressure will oddly enough drop (If the blood pressure drops below a certain level, I can pass out from the anxiety attack). Hyperventilating while trying to induce a WILD at least from perspective usually makes it way more difficult to induce a WILD, and the only "drug trip" I had was that one time where I tried to combine caffeine after taking my sleep pills that one time (combining sleep pills with caffeine WILL result in a drug trip, do not try this). I wonder if I am the only one on here who hears the hyperventilating when I end up in a lucid dream, but I am not the one doing the breathing (you don't need to breathe when you are in a lucid dream).

The difference between a WILD and turning into a ghost is one you are aware of your lucid dream and often the other you are not aware of your of your dream, with the latter most often having some sort of very obvious dream sign a user may not recognize because of this, such as awkward flying or being in a different neighborhood. While it is possible to turn into a ghost in a lucid dream, usually users think they can really do that, so they don't think about that as a lucid dream ability. I've even had WILDs where I have seen my room, house, and neighborhood with 100% accuracy, and even read the random notes on the counter. I still know I am dreaming, and do you know why that is? There are still dream signs in them to tell me I am dreaming. Flying and intangibility for example, as you cannot use those abilities in real life.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

24/7/365
Posts: 195
Joined: 07 Apr 2017 15:29

Re: What is the difference between LD and HB, also AP??

Postby 24/7/365 » 13 May 2017 15:51

It's not science. Unless, one spells it, (Sc)See (i)Eye (en)In (ce)Sea. I would suggest an astroblast. ;)

lucidé
Posts: 501
Joined: 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Re: What is the difference between LD and HB, also AP??

Postby lucidé » 15 May 2017 19:44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG0E9TPPJRs

You mean this?

It doesn't matter if some parts of lucid dreaming are against science, such as maybe when I was lucid dreaming in the EEG lab and I was not only unconscious, I had an incident of dream spying (which has to do more with the laws of chance AKA the laws of math rather than science). As long as I was able to prove to myself I was "aware" I was dreaming at the time it felt like to me I was dreaming, it will always be classified to me as a lucid dream.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g


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