Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

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HAGART
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Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby HAGART » 14 Sep 2012 06:03

if a lucid dream felt like it lasted 15 minutes, did it really last 15 minutes or was my mind going faster or slower than usual and it was actually 5 or 30 minutes real time?

I have a feeling it is probably quite accurate because if you sit in a waiting room without a clock, most people can tell whether they were in there for 5, 15, or 30 minutes just by the feel of it.

However, in a lucid dream you can get a lot more done in 15 minutes than in waking life so it can throw off the whole 'feel' of the time spent there.

I bet Stephen LaBerge probably tested this, but I never read any of his books. I wonder what you guys think or know about this.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Peter
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Re: Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby Peter » 14 Sep 2012 07:04

I have a good idea on how long I am dreaming but dont relate that to what has happened in the dream. Never really thought to do this and in thinking about it now there is no sense of dream time just an idea of waking life clock time.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby lucidinthe sky » 14 Sep 2012 07:52

HAGART wrote:I bet Stephen LaBerge probably tested this, but I never read any of his books. I wonder what you guys think or know about this.


I have read one of his books and I do believe he mentions testing this. I believe he determined that our estimates of time in dreams are fairly accurate.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Psychosanity
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Re: Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby Psychosanity » 14 Sep 2012 17:08

A couple relevant excerpts from "Lucid Dreaming" by Stephen LaBerge

Section is titled "Dream Time"

---

...evidence suggests that dreams normally take the same amount of time the actions would take in real life. In one study, Dement and Kleitman awakened five subjects at either five or fifteen minutes after the beginning of their REM periods, and asked them to decide which amount of time had elapsed. Four of the five subjects were consistently able to choose the correct time. The same study showed that dreams reported after fifteen minutes of REM sleep were longer than those following five minutes of REM. Such reports appear to contradict the notion of instantaneous dreaming. However, they do not prove that dream time is the same as "real time," but only indicate that they are generally proportional to one another.

However, subjective dream duration can be directly and easily measured by using lucid dreamers.
Oneironauts are instructed to signal when they become lucid in their dream, and then to estimate an
interval of, say, ten seconds by counting to ten in the dream. The lucid dreamer signals again to mark the
end of the interval, which can then be directly measured on the polygraph record.

In our experiments, we found that the average length of these estimated ten-second intervals was
thirteen seconds, which was also the average estimation of a ten-second interval while subjects were
awake.

---

I am sure many readers will object, saying something like "But I've had dreams in which I spent what
seemed like years or lifetimes." So have we all, but I believe this seeming passage of time is
accomplished in dreams the same way it is in the movies or the theater. If we see someone in a movie
turning out the light at midnight, and a few moments later see her turning off an alarm shortly after
dawn, we accept that seven or eight hours have passed even though we "know" it has only been a few
seconds. I think the same kind of mechanism operates in dreams to produce the sensation of extended
passages of time. I have no argument with this sense in which dream time may not equal clock time.
Nevertheless, the evidence of our lucid dream experiments with time suggests that it takes just as long to
dream you are doing something as it does to actually do it.
Last edited by Psychosanity on 14 Sep 2012 22:07, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2390

NAIAD
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Re: Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby NAIAD » 14 Sep 2012 17:14

HAGART wrote:if a lucid dream felt like it lasted 15 minutes, did it really last 15 minutes or was my mind going faster or slower than usual and it was actually 5 or 30 minutes real time?

I have a feeling it is probably quite accurate because if you sit in a waiting room without a clock, most people can tell whether they were in there for 5, 15, or 30 minutes just by the feel of it.

However, in a lucid dream you can get a lot more done in 15 minutes than in waking life so it can throw off the whole 'feel' of the time spent there.

I bet Stephen LaBerge probably tested this, but I never read any of his books. I wonder what you guys think or know about this.


There's a guy on the LD4all forums who sets a dream clock (for the purpose of delaying time) and he claims to spend weeks in some of his dreams even though the REM period lasts an hour or so. I think it is possible that the brain can alter the speed of the experience.

alppdcjr12
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Re: Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby alppdcjr12 » 14 Sep 2012 21:17

I think I agree with NAIAD. Drugs and different situations can alter the way we perceive time; clearly that is a function of our mind. I think that it is possible to perceive more time passing than is actually passing (although objectively, "actual" passage of time must therefore be arbitrary) but I think it's very very easy to confuse this with the illusion of time passage created by the story-forming dream function rather than by actually altering our consciousness. I haven't tried to do it yet, but I certainly will at my next opportunity.
"Life is that which dreams are made on, and is rounded by a sleep."
-Prospero, Shakespeare's "The Tempest"
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby lucidinthe sky » 14 Sep 2012 22:57

Psychosanity wrote:I am sure many readers will object, saying something like "But I've had dreams in which I spent what seemed like years or lifetimes." So have we all, but I believe this seeming passage of time is accomplished in dreams the same way it is in the movies or the theater.


Albert Einstein famously said "Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity. "
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby Peter » 14 Sep 2012 23:36

...evidence suggests that dreams normally take the same amount of time the actions would take in real life


How does this relate to flying into space or to another city or country in a dream. One on my constant thought is why do we bother to place everything into the context of normal reality and really what does it tell us that is useful in the end
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Psychosanity
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Re: Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby Psychosanity » 14 Sep 2012 23:47

Well, LaBerge was writing as a scientist comparing 'dream time' to the corresponding elapsed time in 'normal reality', hence that context.

I was just providing some of LaBerge's words as a response to the OP:

HAGART wrote:if a lucid dream felt like it lasted 15 minutes, did it really last 15 minutes or was my mind going faster or slower than usual and it was actually 5 or 30 minutes real time?

I bet Stephen LaBerge probably tested this, but I never read any of his books.


I agree that it doesn't tell us anything useful as far as lucidity or dreams themselves are concerned.
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2390

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Sense of TIMING in a lucid dream

Postby lucidinthe sky » 14 Sep 2012 23:53

Peter wrote:
One on my constant thought is why do we bother to place everything into the context of normal reality and really what does it tell us that is useful in the end


Good thought, just thinking about this today. Our sense of reality is based on what I would call "reference points" so it makes sense that we would use waking reality as a reference point to the dream world. Everything we define is in relation to something else. Up is up because we compare it with the ground. We have light to compare with darkness, etc. Of course we can have an entirely new set of experiences in dreams that are not possible in waking life. But we see them in relation to our existing reference points which to me are more or less arbitrary anyway. My opinion as that all reference points like time and space are created.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus


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