Then carry out your plan of action. It is important to have one so you avoid hesitation which csn cause one to wake up. Also, avoid too much internal dialogue and remembering to remind yourself that you are dreaming from time to time in case your consciousness dwindles and you forget. The lucid state is not stable. It fluctuates between wakefulness and dreaming and it is our job to keep it fairly stable and optimal so we can enjoy its prolongation and intensity.
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KylePK wrote:That is because quieting the mind is unnecessary and often counter productive. Its much easier and is much more effective to learn to watch the chatter of the mind without influencing it.
i see this in a different way. isn't trying to quiet the mind another form of conscious influence? i would say that if your mind "quiets" from letting go of conscious control its the same as if it were to become loud. that you should focus only on the conscious role, at least in a traditional meditation practice.
i'm also going to disagree with you about quieting the mind. while the mind is a wonderful thing that gives us great information, how can we reach certain information if other parts of our mind is too loud? take sensory input for example, without quieting that i cannot fall asleep. i guess what i'm saying is that tuning certain thoughts down is necessary for "hearing" others.
I'm not saying that a loud mind is good. But I do think that assuming your mind needs to be quiet in order to fall asleep or lucid dream is a crutch, a setback, a habit. It works sometimes, sure, but it isn't necessary. The mind quiets from letting go of conscious control because half the time our conscious control is what fills our minds. When you let go of everything, you mind quiets out because you don't have your irrelevant day to day thoughts bubbling around in there.
That is my point. Consciously trying to quiet the mind doesn't work as well because "trying to quiet" anything IS a conscious effort.lumencryster wrote:isn't trying to quiet the mind another form of conscious influence? i would say that if your mind "quiets" from letting go of conscious controlKylePK wrote:That is because quieting the mind is unnecessary and often counter productive. Its much easier and is much more effective to learn to watch the chatter of the mind without influencing it.
The mind quiets itself if you let it. We don't need our sense of control and effort to quiet the mind. If you let go of control and let the mind do as it would without your conscious input, you will find that it is more than happy to simmer down. In your case, I would strongly suggest trying this because if you have to quiet your mind before sleeping, then you may really enjoy the feeling of letting go. I can't emphasize enough the unnecessary act of "turning certain thoughts down", "quieting" , "trying to quiet the mind" and "conscious influence". These are all functions of control and they are, as I said before, more often counter productive.
Its like having a stubborn horse. Cliche inbound. You can push, pull, drag, shove, nudge, command and do you best efforts to force that horse into drinking water. But the horse doesn't need you do control it, to try and force it into doing what it is naturally capable of doing without your ego and sense of control. Quit bugging the horse and it will drink that water when it pleases.
Don't try to control the volume of your mind. Hush your ego, controls, fears, beliefs, etc. and your mind will do what it does naturally.
KylePK wrote:We only call our waking life "reality" because it has the most rules and boundaries, so it must be real. This reality and dreaming and OBE are all equally real realities, they just have different rules. For those of you who lucid dream often, you know what I am talking about when I say it is equally as realistic as waking life. That reality just functions on a different set of rules.
Yes, I agree: The rules are different, but after exploring, obeserving and testing, it seems that the rules are the only difference that I can determine. My most recent LD was really more like being teleported to some unknown location, I'm still trying to digest the experience which really has no equivalent. Closing my eyes and in a matter of 5 seconds a complete blackness transforms into an actual physical, 3 dimensional place, then literally stepping into that place and exploring it. It lasted long enough for me to get really comfortable and used to the dream "reality". In an attempt to make the dream last longer, I had decided not to get excited and to pretend it was a waking life experience and to strictly abide by the same rules. It worked, almost too well. I really stopped thinking about it being a dream and at one point it suddenly got weird because I was thinking, "Wait a minute, am I awake? No it's still a dream right?" It's almost like I lost track of which reality I was in.
But something I'm experiencing lately is that the same will/intent that drives dreams also applies to waking life and makes things happen in that reality as well, although with more limitations of course. It's not the same as just thinking something in your mind, but a deeper intention. Definitely something that I'm learning from lucid dreaming.
KylePK wrote:Thank you for sharing that experience with me! That sounds incredible, sounds exactly like a goal I would have! You should really do some research on Tom Campbell and his "BIG TOE". Haha google it and watch some of his videos. There is a topic in this forum about it, pretty recent too. I highly recommend you specifically check it out based on what you told me.
I have listened to quite a bit Tom Campbell's theories and I do agree with a lot of it, especially since I happen to had also came to pretty much the same conclusions. I agree with him in that the conscious entity of which we are part is driving this entire reality as we know it and it is a simulation of sorts designed for improvement. My opinion (Tom's too I think) is that we actually are making this reality in real-time and as a collective effort, we do the same things in dreams only it is our own "project". If I evaluate the quality of my dreams in terms of the remarkable likeness to waking life, my conclusion is that I somehow gained some serious ability in that area which is part of our purpose here, IMO.
The problem I have with Tom is not with his general theories, it's in the area of astal-projection and his claims that he has interacted with the physical collective reality plane while essentially travelling in what I would believe was his own astral travelling plane, if at all. Each one of us when we lucid dream, is doing OBE and astral travelling (mine sure are), but we have no demonstrable connection to the collective physical plane. There is speculation about whether this is possible, but I think if you are claiming to do this as a science experiment like Tom has, and wants his "research" to be reognized, then you have an obligation to use the scientific method to prove it and as far as I know Tom can't prove what he is claiming to have done. He makes statements which makes him sound like he wants to be part of the club, but not play by the rules. Anyway, this doesn't take away from his general ideas and theories which have value.
The experiments which have been done by physicists at the quantum level, show that the universe is not solid and that reality exists only as states of "possibilities" There is also a lot of debate in the physics world whether particles even exist when they are not being watched. Regardless of what seems logical, this has not been proven. It's possible that things at our level are entirely different than at the quantum level, but that isn't logical to me.
So whether our physical reality really exists in a concrete objective way can't be proven either way since no one can step outside of the reality that we are in and make some sort of objective measurement from outside the system, a different reference point.
Science gives us a set of rules by which things work, and the rules become the reality. But in a sense the rules that govern science are arbritrary, there could be other dimensions/universes that operate with different rules (the majority of physicists believe this is the case). My belief (can't prove it) is that our universe consists of some kind of very basic material, maybe just information, pixels and it all exists as a sea of possibilities. I have a computer keyboard in front of me which gives me all possible keys. I press them and convert the possibility into pixels on my screen of reality. So IMO, we are taking that raw material of universe which exists as possibilities and "solidifying it" for lack of a better term. Physicists say that an observer "collapses the wave function" which converts a possibility into a reality which can be measured.
That's my map of reality at this point, but it's evolving. I try to listen to all points of view and come to my own conclusions.
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