I've been learning lately that lucid dreaming is really just one of many levels of access to the "wider reality".
OBE seems to be the next level of access to this non-physical space. And many experienced people are saying that a lucid dream is a good way to access things deeper.
For those who haven't researched into this, many have described a whole world in this other reality that includes where our souls reside between lives. Each person is part a small group, a soul group, and each group has a "guide". If this is new to you, I would suggest reading "Multi Dimensional Man" (he also has a site), or "Adventures Beyond the Body" or see this site for more description. http://focus-4.es.tl/WELCOME.htm
I've have many lucid dreams lately but last night was amazing.
Part way through a lucid dream I decided to ask for help from the dream. Out loud I said "please help me, I would like to meet you". I was expecting a loud voice to say something to me as I have read in so many posts. Something like "hello, I am xyz" in a booming godly type voice. But in my case this didn't happen. In my case, I noticed a cloud forming 100 feet above me and a 5 foot hole formed in the cloud, and in the hole I could clearly see a room existed. Obviously I was being invited in.
I flew up and into the room and found myself standing in a 1950's style kitchen which I didn't recognise but it could be anyone's grandmothers kitchen with old plates on the walls and teacups on the table, and a window overlooking a yard and trees. Nobody was there though.
Suddenly out of mid air a series of needlepoints appeared in front of me in the room, with phrases on them. You know the ones I mean: they usually say clichés like "There's No Place Like Home". In this case, each one had it's own style and color (one red, one yellow etc), Each about 20 inches across. Each looked perfectly hand made and was perfectly readable. They appeared one after the other.
Here's what they said, on individual needlepoints, in sequence-
"Oh How We"
"For Speaking To Us"
The needlepoints continued with other phrases and some sort of codes (none of which I can now remember), but I was so awestruck at the first several ones, an overwhelming feeling welled up in me. I started to cry. The strong feeling of emotion shocked me back to bed and woke me up where I laid there still feeling the strong emotion and still nearly in tears.
These phrases did not come out of me. If this were my imagination, I would have created the godly voice, not these crazy needlepoints!
I know I must have been in contact not just with something or someone, but with a group. A group who seems happy that I'm reaching out. I am flabbergasted.
The thing is- I was expecting to hear a voice respond to me, which I didn't. And I was expecting a response from a[u] single[/u] "person", which I didn't. Could my subconsciousness just be surprising me? Sure, that's possible. Anything is possible I suppose.
But, I was talking to someone about this earlier and didn't have my notes,, and was trying to remember what was said, and I tried for quite some time and couldn't come up with anything that gave the same sentiment. I was doing yard work for 2 hours and still could think of anything that rhymed and gave the intention. When I got back to my desk I read it and it was just perfect. I find it unlikely that I could have spontaneously come up with the phasing when for two hours in full consciousness I couldn't find the words. It just feels like I could never have invented this wording on the spur of the moment in the 4 seconds that it happened. Also- thee? I've never used that word.
Finally- Although I didn't mention it in my earlier email, my spoken intention for the evening was to use the lucid dream and to try to OBE. Essentially I asked to "use my non-physical body and ask for help from my guide". The idea was to step from a lucid dream state to an OBE state. I think that's what may have happened. Of course it's impossible to know for sure.
I can tell you I had the definite sense that I was not conversing with myself as is normally the case in a dream state.
Your mind is full of everything that you have even seen or heard or experienced in any way and I have read that the brain spends a lot of time not letting vast amounts of info get to you so anything you experience is possibly build from past input and delivered by the logic of the dream state.
There are plenty of times when I experience the LD state without body at all, just as a form of awareness. Neither in a dream body or obe. It just goes on and gets deeper
Apparently we are in very different camps on this.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but let me just explain a little further-
- I have no religious baggage to deal with as I have never subscribed to any structured belief system. I think that organised religions have have lots of issues that I won't even touch on here.
- I'm not particularly afraid of dying , never have been, so I am not concocting a nice bedtime storey to comfort myself.
- I am not a new age hippy or radical looking for a cause to fight.
- I am a professional engineer looking at the evidence and drawing conclusions about most likely causality.
Here's what I see- I've seen/read a ton of evidence indicating that OBE is much more than an interaction with your own head. It has been described as closely associated with experiences such as NDE. And all of these experiences are accessing to one degree or another, a wider reality that exists entirely outside of one's own physical brain.
One example from Journey of Souls is where Dr Newton in his psych practice regresses a patient, and after he found the source of the patients problem he had the patient review in detail how he died and what transpired after death. The story as subsequently been duplicated many dozens of times with other patients by a number of doctors. In this and many other cases, the basic process of death and what happens after have been confirmed from the point of view of people who completely died and were buried! And this process is essentially the same as the NDE literature has been describing for many decades. The details are too much to review here but are mind blowing. Is this all fantasy? Sure it's possible. But it's interesting that the accounts are so similar from so may people.
By the way- several experiences that I have had and had written in a journal BEFORE I read anything about these phenomenon I subsequently saw described in these books. My point is- I haven't been conditioned to expect certain things to occur. I experienced things and went to discover what they were.
For those who say that what we have here is a vivid imagination coupled with a gullible Psychiatrist,, these doctors have often also collected detailed prior life info such as name, address, wife and children's names. circumstance of death,, and later verified these facts. They have been proven true.
There are MANY cases like this where past life information which was previously totally unknown to the patient was discovered and communicated during a session and verified to be accurate. Are you suggesting these are just coincidence? Or that they are somehow staged these many dozens of times?
If these sorts of cases are genuine (and I believe they are) they indicate that these phenomenon are quite a bit more than interesting party tricks that can be played with one's own physical brain and biological memory.
For more reading I would again point to the sources I indicated earlier in the thread. These are only a few of the many volumes on the subject.
When I first started researching and experimenting with LD I, like you, considered it fascinating, and a great way to access the vast collection of my personal "lost" memories, information, feelings and insight which is otherwise inaccessible. I have since reached the conclusion that it is a much more fascinating thing all together, and operates mostly outside of my physical body and outside of physical reality all together and has potentially huge implications for each of us who want to take the time to look closely at it.
My suggestion for anyone who is interested is: be sceptical, but also inquisitive. Be open minded to the literature but let it guide you, not convince you. Let it give you some ideas as to how to go about your own process of discovery, so you can base your conclusions on your own experience.
For me personally: I have experienced enough to be strongly leaning toward the opinion that what I am experiencing isn't contained in myself. However I will continue my process of discovery to either confirm or deny.
In my opinion, each person needs to choose if they are interested in seeking personal confirmation of how the world works, and what type of proof they need to satisfy themselves.
So a simple statement that it’s all in our mind is in no way dismissive of where the input comes from.
I have had a life of LD and OBE and cannot explain a lot of "dreams" and a very open mind and a practical background as well.
In some ways I think we are energy beings and our only purpose is to explore consciousness.
Give me some book titles and I will read them, I have a big collection of books and read anything
Peter wrote:Give me some book titles and I will read them, I have a big collection of books and read anything
Here's a few-
Adventures Beyond the Body by William Buhlman
Journey of Souls- By Michael Newton
Multi Dimensional Man by Jurgen Ziewe
Peter wrote:When I say it all happens in our mind ,,,
I think that's the tricky bit- in my thinking, "mind" is not the same as saying "brain".
As I think you also said- I consider the brain to be our interface to the world. It is the thing that allows us to process what our senses detect and controls our body. It is an interface and interconnection device. It is a complex hunk of living tissue.
Our "mind" on the other hand is a much more subtle and complex thing and my current sense is, it might not really fully reside inside us. I believe that our "mind" is actually somehow a part of or connected to this non-physical environment that we are talking about.
So when you say this stuff is going on in our "mind" I guess I would agree,,, with the following caveat: to me that is the same thing as saying it is going on outside our physical body. As always. one's personal definition of the words we use mean everything.
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