FILD, Question...

Discuss lucid dreaming techniques including dream recall, MILD, WILD, meditation and other ways of attaining lucidity in dreams.
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flairina
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FILD, Question...

Postby flairina » 13 Sep 2011 01:44

Alright, so I, for some reason, keep waking up at around 3:28 in the morning. I heard this might be a good time to try something called a Finger Induced Lucid Dream, and FINALLY got results. Two years. TWO. YEARS! And nothing else has worked up until now! I was about ready to give up!

I only had "partial" control in my dream. I "peeled" out of my body (Is that normal? It felt weird.), but couldn't make certain things I wanted to happen, happen. For example, for some reason I couldn't make a bolt of lightning strike, nor could I cut through a tree. But I could make a gigantic random church dissappear, and had slight telekinesis. I almost was able to fly, but was woken up by something moments later. All in all, it only lasted about 16 minutes.

Anyways, I've got a question. Is there some reason I couldn't control the entire dream? I also felt like, at certain points, I wasn't looking through my own eyes. Did I just dream that I was having a lucid dream, but wasn't actually having one? (If that even makes sense?)

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Ryan
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Re: FILD, Question...

Postby Ryan » 16 Sep 2011 16:48

Congrats! :)
flairina wrote:I only had "partial" control in my dream. I "peeled" out of my body (Is that normal? It felt weird.)

Technically, there isn't anything you can experience in a non-physical experience that isn't "normal". :)
It's all normal.

Anyways, I've got a question. Is there some reason I couldn't control the entire dream? I also felt like, at certain points, I wasn't looking through my own eyes. Did I just dream that I was having a lucid dream, but wasn't actually having one? (If that even makes sense?)

I think that 'control' and how consciously aware you are at the time are intrinsically linked... in that the less "awareness" you have, the less "control" you tend to have. I try to increase my awareness to as close to my waking awareness as I can... I do the following:

I’ll explain here how I go about converting my Lucid Dreams into full Astral Projections.

How you become Lucid to begin with is outside the scope of this entry and I’ll provide that information later. So, your first step, obviously, is to become Lucid within your dream. This means that you have the basic knowledge, during the dream, that you are indeed dreaming. You know that the environment you’re in now is not part of the physical world, and that your physical body is actually in your bed, sleeping.

The next step is to bring forth your full waking conscious awareness. There are a few methods for doing this, but I’ll just mention the one that I use and know is doable. First, stop what you’re doing and focus on one aspect of the environment or yourself (a flower pot, your hands, etc… ) then begin the process of questioning yourself.

I have four main questions I like to use.

“Where am I?”
“Where am I going?”
“How did I get here?”
and “What am I doing?”

This act of questioning yourself and your surroundings brings forth your critical faculties and opens your full waking conscious awareness.

Congratulations, you’re now Astral Projecting.

http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/09/01/how-i-convert-a-lucid-dream-into-an-astral-projection/

Congratulations on your success! :)
For more information, please visit my website
http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/
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flairina
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Re: FILD, Question...

Postby flairina » 26 Sep 2011 10:34

It happened again! I managed another FILD, this time INSIDE the dream (woah, Inception flashbacks), and this time had almost no control, which kinda stinks because I was in my room the whole time. I managed to make blue electric sparks pop across one of the bookshelves, and at one point managed some telepathy with someone, but aside from that I had no control. Dang. Well, at least it was a lucid dream. :)

Now, a question occurs to me. Does a lucid dream fully wake your brain up? because in the two I've had so far, I feel more like I'm 3/4 awake, and still partly asleep (in terms of my mind). I couldn't remember a few of the things I wanted to do. Any reason for this? Would spinning help maybe?
Last edited by flairina on 27 Sep 2011 02:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Ryan
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Re: FILD, Question...

Postby Ryan » 26 Sep 2011 18:20

What most people call a "Lucid Dream" I call a "non-physical lucid awareness experience".

Basically, when you're lucid in the non-physical all you really realize/know is that you're in the non-physical (ie dreaming). To "fully wake up your brain", as you put it, you'd have to actively do that. One of the methods I use is in that link I provided above. That will bring forth your 'waking awareness' (as close to how aware you are right now).

If you can bring forth your waking awareness while you're in the non-physical, then you'll be having a "Non-physical astral awareness experience"... or as most people refer to it, an astral projection. :)
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Summerlander
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Re: FILD, Question...

Postby Summerlander » 26 Sep 2011 19:17

Technically, there isn't anything you can experience in a non-physical experience that isn't "normal".
It's all normal.


It's all normal? So, is it normal to levitate, fly, go through walls, change shape and perform telekenesis? :mrgreen:

I don't think it's a good idea to think that everything that happens in lucid dreams is normal. We need to distinguish ABNORMALITIES in dreams and label them for the anomalies that they represent against what is regarded as normal in the waking world. This is the ticket to converting many of your dreams into lucid experiences.

What most people call a "Lucid Dream" I call a "non-physical lucid awareness experience".


Why give it such a long name? Isn't it easier to say lucid dreams? It is easier, more popular and more acceptable. If you say "non-physical lucid awareness experience" to a stranger, they are very likely to switch off and walk away from you immediately. I also feel that the "non-physical" is somewhat misplaced there because, many lucid dreams can feel very physical. Also, when it comes to dreaming, there is evidence of physics involved. If you are going to regard such experiences as trips to some non-physical dimension, then you might as well say that this reality is not physical seen as atoms are not physical things.

If, on the other hand, you say "lucid dream", the person will have a clue about what you are talking about. Often you only have to explain the "lucid" part. Likewise, the "phase" is only one word which will draw curiosity and can be explained in mundane terms.

Be careful, because, the minute you start passing theories off as fact is when people will ask you to provide the evidence that made you arrive at that conclusion. You can introduce this phenomenon to someone without having to say that it happens in another dimension or that it all happens in the head.

If we want this phenomenon to be known by as many people as possible, that is the way to go. Furthermore, I feel that it is counter-productive to use terms like "astral projection", when introducing the phase state to someone, due to its mystical and spiritual connotations. We must remember that not everyone believes in that and it really shouldn't matter what people believe. This phenomenon should be studied and approached in a pragmatic way - the rest is all interpretations.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Ryan
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Re: FILD, Question...

Postby Ryan » 26 Sep 2011 21:48

Summerlander wrote:It's all normal? So, is it normal to levitate, fly, go through walls, change shape and perform telekenesis? :mrgreen:

I don't think it's a good idea to think that everything that happens in lucid dreams is normal. We need to distinguish ABNORMALITIES in dreams and label them for the anomalies that they represent against what is regarded as normal in the waking world. This is the ticket to converting many of your dreams into lucid experiences.

You're only talking perspective.
From the point of view of being consciousness... there's nothing that's abnormal.

For example... to me, flying is as normal a non-physical thing to do as breathing is here.

Why give it such a long name? Isn't it easier to say lucid dreams? It is easier, more popular and more acceptable. If you say "non-physical lucid awareness experience" to a stranger, they are very likely to switch off and walk away from you immediately. I also feel that the "non-physical" is somewhat misplaced there because, many lucid dreams can feel very physical. Also, when it comes to dreaming, there is evidence of physics involved. If you are going to regard such experiences as trips to some non-physical dimension, then you might as well say that this reality is not physical seen as atoms are not physical things.

Because I choose to differentiate between associations that most people have with the term "lucid dreams" and the associations my experiences give me which dictate that they're just non-physical experiences of varying levels of awareness. My terminology makes that abundantly clear.

It can be shortened to just "dream awareness", "lucid awareness" and "astral awareness". But the longer version makes the point that they're states of mind and not things you do.

If, on the other hand, you say "lucid dream", the person will have a clue about what you are talking about. Often you only have to explain the "lucid" part. Likewise, the "phase" is only one word which will draw curiosity and can be explained in mundane terms.

Hence why I use the terms "dream", "lucid" and "astral" in my states of mind. Most people have the basic idea of what those three ideas are and it's easy to visualize them on a continuum scale with all points in between. They're all just "the phase" as you'd call it in Raduga's terms.

Be careful, because, the minute you start passing theories off as fact is when people will ask you to provide the evidence that made you arrive at that conclusion. You can introduce this phenomenon to someone without having to say that it happens in another dimension or that it all happens in the head.

To me, they are true. They're 100% true.
In any case, it's not like you and I are talking different things. We're both referring to the same thing using different metaphors.

Nobody should "believe" anything I say... nobody should believe anything you say either.
What they should do is find out themselves through direct first hand experience. That's what I want to see people do.

If we want this phenomenon to be known by as many people as possible, that is the way to go. Furthermore, I feel that it is counter-productive to use terms like "astral projection", when introducing the phase state to someone, due to its mystical and spiritual connotations. We must remember that not everyone believes in that and it really shouldn't matter what people believe. This phenomenon should be studied and approached in a pragmatic way - the rest is all interpretations.

Sadly, we all have our separate metaphors for how we talk and describe things. This website uses the "Lucid Dream" metaphor as an almost catch-all for the non-physical. You use Raduga's "The phase" metaphors. I use mine.

The problem comes when people start to think that their chosen metaphor is the only way and start to become violent towards people who use different metaphors. It happens... sadly.

That's the nice thing about exploring the non-physical... you can take as much or as little from it as you want. If you want to just fly around your neighborhood, you can... you might end up getting bored quickly, but you can.
And likewise, if you want to unlock your spiritual side and "grow", you can do that too. It's really up to the individual.
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Summerlander
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Re: FILD, Question...

Postby Summerlander » 27 Sep 2011 00:28

Please, don't get me wrong. By no means am I being aggressive to you or impinging people's opinions and beliefs with catchy terms. This is about semantics and widening the net in order to involve as many people as possible (from all backgrounds) when it comes to this phenomenon.

Inevitably, what might seem interesting to someone, might be boring or fiddlestick to someone else. This is why I thought what I mentioned in my previous post would be a valuable point to raise when describing this phenomenon to newcomers.

Your longer version may make people aware that they're states of mind but doesn't the word "dream" already do that? After all, most people know that there are different kinds of dreaming (vivid, vague, lucid, non-lucid, meaningful, nonsensical, inspirational, intuitional etc.)

I absolutely agree that people should make up their minds about what they experience but we must also be careful not to influence others into our own beliefs. If you have a look at OBE4u, you will find that the "phase" term, regardless of whether it is the best or most attractive term or not, brings people of different backgrounds and beliefs together.

Due to the pragmatic nature of the site, members seldom argue about what the phase is and isn't. They have their own beliefs and simply respect each other. The subject matter is usually more focused on the practical side of things. Whatever and however you choose to use the phase to your advantage is entirely up to you.

Some like to experiment and enjoy observing the peculiarities - that's their advantage in their minds. Some like to fly all the time and never get bored of this (in contrast to those that do) - that's their advantage in their minds. Some like to achieve a sense of spiritual growth through their experiences - that's their advantage in their minds (and likewise one can grow bored of this pursuit). Others use it practically in order to develop their skills and problem-solve (that's their advantage and I guess would be most people's advantage...in their minds). Some like to try all of the above and keep to a recommended plan of action for when they enter said state. Within a plan of action, anything can be done. This avoids hesitation in the phase, which, as it has been observed, can be detrimental to the duration of the experience.

In the end, it is all concepts and how much they attract each individual. Everything tends to revolve around ego, and the concept of progress, even in the spiritual pursuit, is inescapable. There is no selfless good deed - even for those who are spiritually inclined - because a good deed makes the illusion of self feel good. There will always be a sense of gratification.

To me, and you don't have to take this as gospel, we are programmed that way by nature. The organism does everything with the sole purpose of improvement - even if the sense of improvement is misguided as is seen, for instance, in those who take a self-destructive path with underlying motives that usually involve self-pity, attention-seeking, crying for help, escape from pressure etc.

In the end, there is always a reason/reasons behind an individual's actions and behaviour. And everyone has the power to influence and be influenced. With this in mind, we should be cautious when we explain things to people so as to not cloud their personal vision and ideas with our biased perspective. Let them formulate their own take on this. ;)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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