Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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HAGART
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Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby HAGART » 20 May 2014 00:59

I've heard others claim that they exist too many times and have never gotten a straight up answer to explain it.

I've heard seemingly logical people speak of some dream characters as being "spirits" or "demons" that are somehow a real entity that exists beyond your mind. I've also heard that some lucid dreams are in fact, "Astral Projections", and are somehow more 'real' and they exist even after you stop experiencing it.

These same people claim to know the difference, but have yet to explain it. Now's your chance to convince this skeptic!

Otherwise, I will just continue believing that it all begins and ends in our own minds.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Karin
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby Karin » 20 May 2014 16:34

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth:

According to today's mainstream science, the brain generates consciousness (though they don't have proof for that, it's just an assumption of science). So according to mainstream science, astral projections, or life after death, or remote viewing, and so on, are impossible, because such things do not fit with the current scientific paradigm.

On the other hand, there are many anecdotical stories about people having experiences that contradict the above: near death experiences where the patient recalls everything that happened in the ER even though they were brain-dead at the time, astral projections where people claim to see things happening in the real world that they later were able to verify really happened, telepathic experiences, psychic experiences, channeling entities, etc...

However, the above experiences do not constitute scientific evidence, because even though often there were witnesses, these experiences cannot be reproduced on demand and there is not really any way to either confirm or disprove them. After all, the one who had the experience (and the witnesses) could just have been hallucinating, having a fit of collective hysteria, or simply having an overactive imagination. Or they could even be lying, trying to sell something, or attract attention.

My opinion is that we all have to make up our own mind and it's our personal responsibility to chose what we want to believe. That's why I am trying to explore states of consciousness so I can 'see for myself', as opposed to have to base my judgment solely on someone else's experiences and stories (even though I sure am interested to hear them).

For a long time, as a scientist, I have blindly believed what mainstream science was saying, forgetting that there still is a lot that science does not know and cannot even conceive of. There is a lot science knows about the physical world, but maybe the physical world isn't all there is, but is just one 'layer' of a bigger reality. Maybe this bigger reality is not accessible through our five senses or through our scientific instruments, but that does not mean it isn't there. Maybe our consciousness isn't generated in the brain, but rather, the brain focuses the consciousness into the physical world so that we can experience it through the five senses. And maybe if I can free a portion of my consciousness from the shackles of the brain, I might be able to become more aware of those worlds beyond the physical world, and then bring back some data about these experiences into the brain when I wake up.

"Otherwise, I will just continue believing that it all begins and ends in our own minds." I actually also believe this, even though I prefer to use 'consciousness' instead of 'mind'. I believe it all begins and ends in our consciousness, including the physical world. I believe the physical world is a type of collective dream we are all having. In this dream, it seems as if I have finite body separate of the rest of the world, just like it appears I have a body in my nighttime dreams. In the physical reality dream, I am not conscious of anything outside physical reality, and I can't remember anything about the time before I was born, just like in my normal nighttime dreams I am not aware that I am dreaming and do not remember anything about my 'real waking life'.

That's why I think lucid dreaming is so fascinating, because I believe lucid dreams can hold clues about how physical reality works. What if one could become 'lucid' in physical reality? What if we could become fully aware of who we really are as multidimensional consciousness and become able to have more 'control' about the way our real life unfolds? To quote Bashar, we could start to 'live our dream instead of dreaming to be alive'.

Karin

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HAGART
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby HAGART » 20 May 2014 19:32

I'm actually an open-minded skeptic. (oxymoron)

I wouldn't have brought this up if there wasn't a glimmer of truth to it all. I can't dismiss the possibility without a shadow of doubt.

It is of course all anecdotal evidence, but I would really like to hear someone's story and share a lucid dream, and an astral projection and compare the two.

It is certainly possible that our consciousness doesn't have to sit inside our head, behind our eyes, and can wander off at times during stress or near death or even some drug use, and of course lucid dreams. I'm even open to the idea that we only see a narrow bandwidth of electromagnetic waves we call light, but if you go 'an octave up', you may see a whole new dimension!

Proof is in the pudding however, and we need to experience it for ourselves. But it's also like saying, "If you don't know than I won't tell you!" :lol:

I'm not here to prove that my opinion is right, but actually want to be proven wrong!
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Karin
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby Karin » 20 May 2014 21:09

I think 'open-minded skepticism' is not an oxymoron, but rather it's a healthy state to be in, especially when venturing out into the unknown. That's very different from close-minded skepticism, which in my opinion often is a form of fundamentalism.

Yes, it would be great to hear stories here from people having both LDs and OBEs! I haven't had any OBEs yet.

There are books on OBEs where the authors share their experiences about OBEs and how they tried to verify their validity. For example Bob Monroe in 'Journeys Out Of The Body'. Some of his experiences are in other planes of reality and sound to me just like lucid dreaming, while some other experiences are in our world and he could verify some of them.

Then there are books on lucid dreaming where the authors share LDs that sound like OBEs, and they see stuff going on that they can later verify. I just read one of those stories in the book 'Lucid Dream' by Robert Waggoner (which I have only partly read).

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taniaaust1
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby taniaaust1 » 29 May 2014 01:11

Open minded sceptics are always good :) . It gives more hope of finding out things and of changing what are just "beliefs". I dont think closed mindnesses is good but then neither is believing everything and not analysing things!!

I really liked Karins post.

Maybe our consciousness isn't generated in the brain, but rather, the brain focuses the consciousness into the physical world so that we can experience it through the five senses. And maybe if I can free a portion of my consciousness from the shackles of the brain, I might be able to become more aware of those worlds beyond the physical world, and then bring back some data about these experiences into the brain when I wake up.



It makes me think of a beetle born and raised in a container. The beatle may think it knows all there is about the world after all its gone to the end and back and that was all there was to it!!

The beetle goes "show me there is more to the world".... but the issue is the beatle is stuck in that container and cant be gotten out (for whatever reason) and other things cant be gotten in. Hopefully the beetle will keep exploring and notice one day that the container has now cracked which could allow contact with new parts of the world.
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It would be great if an experienced OBE person would help prove to HAGART that this exists eg pose for HaGARTS camera who something, this can be done, a fellow occultic student once showed me the photos which were taken of 2 people ..friends of this person.. astral projected posing for a camera.

Most thou cant be bothered by people not believing or not knowing and feel no need to go and prove anything (who cares, people will believe what they will) but as HAGARTS query is a genuine one, it is possible that someone could come forth. (thou I reallly doubt there would be those who are currently doing OBE here at the LD website as I personally find the two states do not mix well! They conflict). HAGART your query would be best to be asked to those at an OBE website with very experienced OBE people.. if you get to know some of those, maybe one of them would be happy enough to help answer (demostate in some way) to answer your query.

..........

I myself thou arent currently doing OBE anymore as Ive put my focus into LD as I like to study the mind and the best way to study it is throu the subconciousness!! so currently are not having OBEs and havent done so for a while cause of my LD focus

I find OBE and LD states are different, both the same kind of relaxation is needed but with LD one needs to let the mind go or the mind needs to do that naturally to start dreaming, with during OBE one doesnt want that occurring as otherwise it becomes a dream). As it is Im still working on it trying to become a habit to engrain into my mind the feeling of and keep hitting that "sweet spot" with LD from which one knows one can get a LD from. Im not about to mess that up by trying to work from the other brain state, till Ive completely mastered LD stuff. **sighs.. Im not doing much with LD of late either, my life has been far too hectic!**
..........

If you want to experience OBE.. stop working with LD. You probably would have to completely break with it (as your mind would be in a habit of entering into a LD state when you get deeply relaxed and you need to make sure that wont be occuring) for a while first before then starting working on AP techniques.

The best AP technique Ive found is an energy raising one in which teaches travelling clairvoyance first and then moves on to AP, in which is in Denning and Phillips book "Astral Projection, The Out of Body Experience). It has a whole AP program which can be worked with, step by step. Anyone interested in OBE.. I really suggest to read this book (if you cant get hold of the actual book from your library or buy it (as I did), someone did find this free to read online after I mentioned it).

The energy technique in this book helps to raise consciousness by boosting chakras (which I know many here dont believe in either).. and hence makes OBE easier to do... expecially when its set out in a program chapter by chapter.

If you do not have friends experienced in this kind of stuff to prove it exists, the best thing then is learning to to do it yourself.

How many people here truely believed in LD before they did it and found out for themselves? (thou OBE should be far easier to prove). What is irronic is even if one does manage to interact with the physical world with it, one still may not be believed. Take what happened to me with a previous boyfriend for example. He'd brought me a gift voucher and hid this on my bedroom wardrobe top. I had an OBE and found myself floating by the ceiling of my bedroom.. when I spotted something on top of my wardrobe which shouldnt have been there. Of cause I drifted across to take a look at what it was. I saw then it was a voucher and read who it was too and for how much.

My boyfriend when I told him, he got very mad at me and accused me of watching him hide it and then peeking. (His mind couldnt accept how I told him I'd found out about it!). I hadnt even known he'd brought me a gift voucher (for xmas/birthday..I forget which now) or even that he'd hide something on my wardrobe top of all places (he didnt even live with me.. so what a stupid place to put something) before I saw that during an OBE.
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erichsa
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby erichsa » 29 May 2014 18:11

That's why I think lucid dreaming is so fascinating, because I believe lucid dreams can hold clues about how physical reality works. What if one could become 'lucid' in physical reality? What if we could become fully aware of who we really are as multidimensional consciousness and become able to have more 'control' about the way our real life unfolds? To quote Bashar, we could start to 'live our dream instead of dreaming to be alive'.

Karin


Personally I know that in my physical world I am mostly not conscious, but in my dream world when I am lucid I am conscious,( or say alive.) I have by now separated my life in to my physical world, and my dream world. I enjoy both my lives. my dream world is mostly clear dreams with lot of action, good dreams no nightmares, but doing what I could do in my physical world, plus all the things I can only do in my dream world like body flying.

Lucid Dreaming, A concise Guide to Awakening in Your Dreams and in Your Life, by Stephen LA Berge helped me to come to my present understanding. I am more than willing to learn and hope I am never to ridged in insisting that my point of view is right.
In a lucid dream I was flying and ask: I want to meet my higher self. I shot up and stopped high in the sky at a mesh wire fence, at the other side of the fence a face looked at me. The face was myself. :lol:

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erichsa
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby erichsa » 29 May 2014 21:24

How many people here truely believed in LD before they did it and found out for themselves? (thou OBE should be far easier to prove). What is irronic is even if one does manage to interact with the physical world with it, one still may not be believed. Take what happened to me with a previous boyfriend for example. He'd brought me a gift voucher and hid this on my bedroom wardrobe top. I had an OBE and found myself floating by the ceiling of my bedroom.. when I spotted something on top of my wardrobe which shouldnt have been there. Of cause I drifted across to take a look at what it was. I saw then it was a voucher and read who it was too and for how much. From: Taniaaust1

I am reading for the first time that you can see things which are in a place you have not looked or shall I say, seen before while OBE. Taniaaust1 that is great. because I thought it is not possible to-do that. :)

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Karin
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby Karin » 30 May 2014 00:14

erichsa wrote:I am reading for the first time that you can see things which are in a place you have not looked or shall I say, seen before while OBE. Taniaaust1 that is great. because I thought it is not possible to-do that. :)


I too am grateful to Taniaaust1 for sharing this. I had this idea in mind, in case one day I achieve OBEs: I would shuffle a deck of cards and place it side up on top of something (without looking), then next time I would have an OBE, I would fly up that piece of furniture to look what card is on top, and then verify it after I wake up...

If one looks at physical reality like a dream our higher consciousness is having, then there is no reason that my higher consciousness should not be able to know everything about everything within that dream, since my consciousness is the one having the dream within itself. Then things like remote viewing, precognition, OBEs, telepathy, and so on and so forth, make perfect sense... Unless my higher consciousness decide to set up limitations within the dream, just for the fun of it (to see if its own self dream character can be smart enough to 'crack' the limitations)?

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HAGART
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby HAGART » 30 May 2014 03:45

I read everything and am letting it sink in with an open mind....

But I had to reply to this:
Karin wrote:I would shuffle a deck of cards and place it side up on top of something (without looking), then next time I would have an OBE, I would fly up that piece of furniture to look what card is on top, and then verify it after I wake up...



Great minds think alike! I actually did this and shared my experiment on this forum. I thought I was original and came up with it first, but even Summerlander had tried it long before me. It's an easy, simple experiment for anyone prone to "out of body dreams". I call it, (OBE... Out of BED Experience) ;). I wasn't successful, and concluded that I was only in a WILD. I had another two this morning. I have a very realistic feeling of a body and can touch things, feel the cold snow, and wet water, but it was clearly a dream since it is almost June here and getting hot in real life!

Here's a link to that experiment right here in this forum in the Science Section:
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13776
Just because I couldn't do it in my 2-3 attempts doesn't mean I disproved it either. I should setup a deck of cards and try again! Reading it again, I was overly scientific, but that's because I didn't want any loop-holes and wanted to be precise. But I couldn't help but lace it with some of my conspiracy theories, I can't help it. ;)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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MAKER
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby MAKER » 30 May 2014 09:42

I haven't read through everyone's comments, but I thought I'd share an experience of mine since it pertains:

When I was younger, probably about 6 or 7, I was visiting my great grandparents out in Louisiana. One night I glimpsed something that still sticks to me to this day, and I am still fairly afraid of this room (great grandpa still has the same house). I was unable to sleep, and while tossing and turning, I turned toward the open part of the room (the bed was against the wall.) I witnessed 4 or 5 "spirits" walking in a counter clockwise circle.

They were all transparent, glowing soft blue, wearing robes with hoods (think of a christian type monk), and were all carrying very big open books. I was one petrified little boy to say the least. I immediately squeezed my eyes shut and didn't move or make a sound for the rest of the night. I didn't dare run toward the door (as I would have to run through this little mob), and I was afraid to scream because I didn't want them to know I was awake.

After that night, I couldn't sleep in that room. Even walking down the hallway at night to the bathroom across from the room was something I couldn't do alone.

As memory fails us through years of space from experiences, I can't say without a doubt that I wasn't dreaming these "spirits" in a restless sleep or something similar, so take this with a grain of salt as it is the experience I had when I was a wee lil' lad :) . BUT, this experience, whether real, a dream, or imagined, has led me to have a fascination with and a slight tendency to be more than open-minded toward "spirits." I can say with certainty that the experience was as real as real gets for the little version of me, but is still no conclusive evidence for the existence of.


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