Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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Knife
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Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Knife » 02 Jul 2016 23:23

Yo I wasn't sure where to post this, if I picked the wrong subforum please excuse me and move the post. The reason I posted it here is because OBE's are important. :mrgreen:

So I'm reading this book about life after death at the moment. The author is a psychologist who spent 40 years studying the subject or something. I'm only at page 70 but it's pretty interesting, although pretty boring too at times.

At one point the author listed 5 "phases" most people who had a NDE (near-death-experience) had gone through. The first step is seeing yourself being dead from another point in the room (surrounded by doctors or whatever). I immedietly noticed the similarities with an OBE.

Does anyone know more about the topic? Is there a connection? It has gotten me really curious.

I hope the book takes up the topic too.
Inherit the earth

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Pilgrim
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Re: Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Pilgrim » 03 Jul 2016 11:16

In this section on Paranormal is a post by Samwise on OBEs v Lucid dreaming. If you have not read that thread yet, you might find it related and interesting. :)

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Summerlander
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Re: Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Summerlander » 04 Jul 2016 01:07

I don't believe in life after death given the fact that everything about one's mind is obliterable through brain damage or malfunction. I explain this rigorously as a counterargument to Sam Wise's spurious thesis. As far as I can tell, our time here is fleeting and the self---as a soul or occult homunculus observing the world from behind our eyes---is an illusion. This individual mystique is old and has been discussed ad nauseum. Once you pop your clogs, you'll most likely have had it. Sorry to be a party-pooper here! :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Pilgrim » 04 Jul 2016 04:28

Summerlander, the fun of the forum is that people have different views. If we were all clones, there would not be much to talk about :mrgreen:

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Knife
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Re: Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Knife » 04 Jul 2016 05:44

Summerlander wrote:I don't believe in life after death given the fact that everything about one's mind is obliterable through brain damage or malfunction. I explain this rigorously as a counterargument to Sam Wise's spurious thesis. As far as I can tell, our time here is fleeting and the self---as a soul or occult homunculus observing the world from behind our eyes---is an illusion. This individual mystique is old and has been discussed ad nauseum. Once you pop your clogs, you'll most likely have had it. Sorry to be a party-pooper here! :mrgreen:


How do you explain the same stories being reported in the east and in the west? Shouldn't malfunction or brain damage lead to more personal "hallucinations"?
Inherit the earth

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Summerlander
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Re: Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Summerlander » 04 Jul 2016 11:55

Personal in what sense, Sir Knife? We all have similar brains and thus liable to similar delusions. Someone from India might meet the god Shiva during an NDE whereas an American might see Jesus Christ. And we all have deceased relatives we can encounter in some trauma-induced vivid dream. :-)

Pilgrim, of course, the beauty is that people have different opinions to share ready for discussion---some more informed than others. But I can't help but use all our input to get to the bottom of it. When it comes to certain topics, I don't always join to 'have fun'. Sometimes a degree of seriousness is called for in order to reach epistemological conclusions; otherwise what is the point?

We all want to know, but I'm afraid, in this case, it inevitably leads to a disquision over how much we can claim to know given the evidence or lack thereof. Is there enough for belief? I say 'no'. And certainly 'believing' in something because we'd like it to be that way definitely holds no water. The same goes for the hypothesised existence of God.

I'm not saying for certain that the lights go out at death. But I don't think any type of conscious experience in this life is evidence for a hypothetical hereafter. I could come up with my own hypothetical version of an afterlife but it wouldn't have anything to do with souls ...

Perhaps we die here and what consciously makes us as people could simultaneously arise in another universe. Perhaps something we don't yet know about quantum mechanics could allow for such to happen. Weirder still is the theory that postulates living over the same life an infinite number of times with no recollection of this repetition. (Thus perpetuating the mystery of life and death.) But what evidence have I got for such conjectures? Absolutely none. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Knife
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Re: Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Knife » 04 Jul 2016 21:33

Summerlander wrote:Personal in what sense, Sir Knife? We all have similar brains and thus liable to similar delusions. Someone from India might meet the god Shiva during an NDE whereas an American might see Jesus Christ. And we all have deceased relatives we can encounter in some trauma-induced vivid dream. :-)


Nah the point is most people see those similar 5 phases, regardless of them being in line with their beliefs. Atleast that's what the book says. I'm not suire if I'm going to continue reading, since the boring parts tend to get longer and longer. But it briefly talked about quantum physics so I'm going to try to read something about that.

Also, NDE's hallucinations tend to show in an actual NDE, while it's not so regularly occuring in other forms of hallucinations caused by brain damage, drugs, ...
Inherit the earth

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Pilgrim
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Re: Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Pilgrim » 05 Jul 2016 01:11

Summerlander wrote:
Pilgrim, of course, the beauty is that people have different opinions to share ready for discussion---some more informed than others. But I can't help but use all our input to get to the bottom of it. When it comes to certain topics, I don't always join to 'have fun'. Sometimes a degree of seriousness is called for in order to reach epistemological conclusions; otherwise what is the point?

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Pilgrim
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Re: Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Pilgrim » 05 Jul 2016 01:20

That is cool, Summerlander. I do both seriousness and joy. Reading you and Samwise go at it, y'all probably had increased blood pressure. It seemed serious. Yet, the funniest ever three word statement by you had me laughing for days: "Consider yourself annihilated." I'm sure you were serious in saying it, but it still has me laughing. :lol: Ideas are a serious matter to me too, and I do appreciate that you have done a lot of homework and try hard.

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Summerlander
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Re: Life after death & Lucid dreaming

Postby Summerlander » 05 Jul 2016 01:28

Yeah. I think I went a bit far there. He wasn't annihilated. I'm sure he's still breathing. :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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