How to obe from a lucid dream?

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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Summerlander
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Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby Summerlander » 28 Jan 2017 14:02

The same is true of the ontological argument for God. Of course, it works in the opposite direction as an attempt to prove that God exists. (I refer to the argument that a being must exist than which none greater can be conceived.)


Ontological arguments such as these---proposed by St. Anselm of Canterbury and Descartes---not only have been impugned by Dawkins as pseudo-proofs in his The God Delusion, but also refuted by Leibniz three hundred years ago when he stated that one must first show a coherent idea of a supremely perfect being. This pseudo-argument is like saying, 'We can imagine dragons---ergo dragons are real.' :D

And then you have Gaunilo and Kant, which you conveniently omitted, who demonstrated that ontological arguments for God are deflowered by their assumption that existence is a predicate. And Bertrand Russell showed it's easier to be persuaded that they are no good than it is to say exactly what is wrong with them. It's just philosophical casuistry which isn't up to par with Excalibur's logic. It can be exposed as false mereology.

Moreover, the Creator conceived in scripture clearly lies in the 'cannot be conceived' category as demonstrated even in works of fiction such as God's Debris by Scott Adams where God apparently fails to remain dead. :roll:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby Pilgrim » 29 Jan 2017 02:35

Remember the point that I stated for slapping you, Summerlander. It was to keep in check your overconfidence and make people feel welcome to express what and why they believe what they do. You can state your basis too for why you believe as OBE being hallucination. The tone is what makes people feel negative and shuts down conversation. Not everyone has the staying power on the forum that we have.

And, I probably agree with Dawkins and all about the ontological argument. But, the fact remains that it is the intellectuals that would even consider endless words on this topic, as if it is a topic that even matters. It is not deceiving and has no relevance to the average person, as if there is some movement of people who believe in God because of it, or as if it has significance to proselytizing.

Final word on Excalibur....For anyone interested, do a simple internet query on scriptural references to God's power. That God is Almighty or has great power is repeatedly in association with certain events. For example, as the one who stretches out the heavens, made all things to exist, has complete knowledge and plan for history, is able to deliver, etc. Ability for nonsense is not the point that I see. And, if there were a defense of nonsense as to basic logic, then the atheist would argue not to believe in nonsense. Consistency with God's other attributes is assumed, such as past and future prophetic events unable to be other than God's plan.

The realistic attack in Scripture is the Historical Critical approach. That is, because much of the Bible presents as detailed historical narrative, objective archeology and historical data can either corroborate or question the truthfulness of accounts. I see this as fair inquiry. Most people are unable to have this method as their full time job. A balanced consideration should include experts of this field, who have renounced the view that Scripture is man-made religion that must have some natural explanation.

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Summerlander
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Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby Summerlander » 09 Feb 2017 00:48

People are free to express their erroneous views just as I'm free to provide what you misconstrue as an overconfident rebuttal, Pilgrim. It is not always about 'welcoming' people here. Some ideas and beliefs are clearly not worthy of merit in the face of reason, logic and evidence. And I've stated before that this holds true even for Holocaust deniers---and we've had one recently who was free to express his views just as we were free to impugn them. Opposing parties during that discourse create an enlightening and informative thread. Wouldn't you agree?

I'm not going to hault the tone of my affirmations whilst others freely express the courage of their own convictions. Not going to happen no matter how many imaginary slaps I'm threatened with. :D

If some individuals feel negative and shut down conversation, then they have a problem and perhaps are not ready for an intelligent and adult conversation. I'm sure you remember the squid who certainly didn't have a problem as reflected in his approach ... 8-)

I'm not here to ensure that people remain on this site. If they don't possess 'staying power', it is not my responsibility to tread on eggshells because they are weak and unprepared to read opposing comments. People have to learn that the corollories of their expressed views won't always be what they expect. One must be prepared to be challenged. Are you prepared to be challenged, Pilgrim? :mrgreen:

The ontological problem is relevant because people believe in God for all sorts of erroneous reasons. In fact, with my Excalibur analogy, I emphasise why believing in such a Being, in any way shape or form, is completely unfounded. And it appears that my argument goes unchallenged as you are unequivocally willing to simply dismiss it because apparently most people are not concerned with such philosophies. If they aren't concerned, they should be---both believer and unbeliever alike. Why? Because it matters in a profound way; it cuts right down to the kernel of the God concept and renders it paradoxical as well as nonsensical. :ugeek:

The God you seem to believe in does not exist. You say He's almighty and powerful? You say He's able to deliver? Deliver what? Endless suffering and a doubtful revelation written by medieval men? What kind of god fails to deliver a cogent word? :lol:

What kind of god sends his alledgedly innocent son to take the punishment for the truly wicked in order to exonerate them? Imagine you taking the fall for Oscar Pistorius or Jimmy Saville ... Would that be justice? What would that teach Charles Manson? That he can infract as much as he wants because there are plenty of divine patsies? :twisted:

There is no evidence of a heavenly plan and there are no divine prophesies. Much to the contrary: there is no plan at all. And the pious know this which is why they enforce the idea of faith---one must be completely submissive; surrender all logic and reason; believe without question; respect the celestial leader; revelation cannot be too conclusive otherwise we cannot demonstrate absolute trust in Him; God shouldn't have to prove Himself to us because He is God; Kim Jong Un shouldn't have to prove himself to North Koreans because He is to be revered as the Dear Leader etc.

This is mental retardation. This is an infantile, sadomasochistic prostration. Anyone who obdurately continues to believe and worship a being that cannot be, and if He were it would be depressing to contemplate such unchallengeable dictatorship, is worthy of ridicule and contempt. :geek:

The Bible is far from being a reliable historical narrative. It assumes the Earth is a stationary centre of the universe. And we can't even be sure that Jesus existed, and if he did, what is the difference between him and say, Sai Baba or Marshall Applewhite? :D

Scripture is manmade. One only has to compare it to the deontological works of philosophers like Immanuel Kant to see that it is nothing but the ramblings of immoral and amoral medieval barbarians.

My two cents. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Pederpan
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Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby Pederpan » 25 Jul 2017 02:21

taniaaust1 wrote:I didn't do the wandering clairvoyance but ended up having OBES just from the energy raising exercises without even trying to.


Wow, this is wonderful Taniaaust1, even better than what i hoped for. Yes i would love to practice your techniques, if you post them here chances are others interested could benefit from them too, if not pm me or reach me at kkvakk@gmail.com. Also, do you have other forums or groups to recommend me?

Thank you too Nickbor for your post. That is a beautiful and insightful experience you had. I agree with you that awareness beyond the ego is not colored by the concerns and likes/dislikes of the body-mind, i have had similar experiences.

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Summerlander
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Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby Summerlander » 25 Jul 2017 13:17

Pfft ... I can have OBEs without deluding myself with so-called energy-raising exercises. Such exercises are nothing but something akin to the placebo effect. :roll:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Pederpan
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Joined: 01 Nov 2016 21:36

Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby Pederpan » 27 Jul 2017 17:40

Whichever way you look at it we are all telling ourselves stories while reality remains a mystery.

lucidé
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Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby lucidé » 30 Jul 2017 03:12

Pederpan wrote:Whichever way you look at it we are all telling ourselves stories while reality remains a mystery.

Believe me, you really don't want some things to be in real life. If they were scientifically accurate, it would make them a total catastrophe. That's the greatness about lucid dreams, is you can be as creative and do anything you want with lucid dreams without suffering the consequences, which you cannot get away with in real life.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

Pederpan
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Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby Pederpan » 31 Jul 2017 15:09

Lucid dreaming is fun, I had as many as i wanted this winter. But what is the utility? What benefits can you bring into your waking life?

lucidé
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Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby lucidé » 18 Aug 2017 06:23

Pederpan wrote:Lucid dreaming is fun, I had as many as i wanted this winter. But what is the utility? What benefits can you bring into your waking life?

So much more than you can imagine.
I have learned many real life skills through lucid dreaming and even further developed skills I have through it. Lucid dreams can help you with real life fears and phobias as well. If you need a vacation, lucid dreaming can help assist you with that even better than a real life vacation ever could. There's also the placebo effect in lucid dreams, which you could use to help you heal faster.

Even if it's possible, I don't see how turning into a ghost would benefit you in any way. Even if you did experience it, it would more than likely lead to misery than happiness, because there are consequences for superpowers in real life if they managed to exist thanks to science and physics.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

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RedKryptonite
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Re: How to obe from a lucid dream?

Postby RedKryptonite » 18 Aug 2017 10:57

lucidé wrote:
Pederpan wrote:Lucid dreaming is fun, I had as many as i wanted this winter. But what is the utility? What benefits can you bring into your waking life?

So much more than you can imagine.
I have learned many real life skills through lucid dreaming and even further developed skills I have through it. Lucid dreams can help you with real life fears and phobias as well. If you need a vacation, lucid dreaming can help assist you with that even better than a real life vacation ever could. There's also the placebo effect in lucid dreams, which you could use to help you heal faster.

May I ask what kind of skills you managed to develop with lucid dreaming? This is actually another reason why I got into lucid dreaming. to help with learning any future skill I wish to learn. Right now,I plan to use it to help me lose fat/weight once I become good enough to induce lucid dreams on at least a semi-regular basis (I sort of can now,at least 2 or more lucid dreams per week. but I'm still working to get more skilled.). I can resist the temptation to pig out when I know I can do so in my dreams.


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