The Hereafter

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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Summerlander
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Re: The Hereafter

Postby Summerlander » 01 May 2017 22:31

We all have our perspectives. :D
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

lucidé
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Re: The Hereafter

Postby lucidé » 02 May 2017 00:34

I have my perspective as well, and I will continue to believe all the multiverses have a purpose for every living thing, including the animals and even the plants. Also that every living thing has their own unique personality as well. Believing there is a purpose, especially for those who have a handicap of some sort, makes life that much more livable. I cannot just invent a purpose for myself, nor can anyone who has issues,they have to show that we do have infinite value to this world so that California nor other states don't just pass a bill to have people who have issues euthanized. Also, I probably don't have as much "time" as you have either, since I was told back when my psychiatrist gave me the medications as a teenager they would decrease my lifespan. I can only hope they invent that lucid dreaming machine really soon.

I just saw this cartoon (well not the very end of it where the guy turns into a ghost, but all the rest of the cartoon), and it made me think of you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW9f04Dctz4
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

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Summerlander
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Re: The Hereafter

Postby Summerlander » 02 May 2017 11:29

Why do you think the composition of atoms that forms matter is more special than that which makes inanimate matter? (Bearing in mind that lifeforms such as us can be quite destructive.)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

lucidé
Posts: 523
Joined: 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Re: The Hereafter

Postby lucidé » 02 May 2017 20:01

Summerlander wrote:Why do you think the composition of atoms that forms matter is more special than that which makes inanimate matter? (Bearing in mind that lifeforms such as us can be quite destructive.)


Because living life forms always in some way can make some sort of difference. BTW, some forms of inanimate matter are way more capable of destruction than we are. Take the tectonic plates underground or lava, which is merely melted rock. While it is true animals or our species do a lot of destruction, lava is going to do much more destruction than we are.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

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Summerlander
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Re: The Hereafter

Postby Summerlander » 03 May 2017 00:58

But isn't it more disgusting that our destruction is often conscious and premeditated? Tectonic plates do not have intentions; they naturally move and no blame can be assigned to anything other than Mother Nature. :geek:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

lucidé
Posts: 523
Joined: 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Re: The Hereafter

Postby lucidé » 03 May 2017 02:40

Summerlander wrote:But isn't it more disgusting that our destruction is often conscious and premeditated? Tectonic plates do not have intentions; they naturally move and no blame can be assigned to anything other than Mother Nature. :geek:


Perhaps it is despicable for the few of our species that decide to cause harm, but personally I believe living species benefit the universe in many different ways. Sure our species do things that are horrible, but there are also a few things they do that are beneficial as well. At least a few times, I've seen videos where our intervention has saved wild animals and even cured diseases. I am only hoping the whole discrimination thing against others will eventually go away, which will make the world a better place. No hating on others, no matter what they believe, what race, what disability, what orientation, or whatever they are.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

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Summerlander
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Re: The Hereafter

Postby Summerlander » 29 May 2017 03:56

You seem to be embracing a fallacy similar to Leibniz's optimism which was brilliantly satirised by Voltaire in Candide.

How does our beneficial side evidence a purposeful universe ab initio? Whose purpose is it? Are you implying some kind of animist pantheism? By the same reasoning, shouldn't our darker and more destructive nature evidence a clear countermeasure to what you've just proposed?

Think about it ...
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

lucidé
Posts: 523
Joined: 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Re: The Hereafter

Postby lucidé » 29 May 2017 07:32

Our beneficial side is helping preserve lives and possibly in the future, could possibly help spread lives further into other planets. They are predicting in the future, we might discover immortality. There might even be a way to restore and revive life, including our own using DNA research (they wouldn't have their memories so we'd have to reprogram as much of their memories as we could). This means things that were lost in the past could be restored, and we could even live on previously hostile planets. There is even a way being programmed so we don't even have to slaughter animals in the future anymore where they are using organic cloning to create the meat we need to survive instead.

BTW if there was no purpose and life was meaningless, I wouldn't even want to exist at all.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

DreamerMan99
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Re: The Hereafter

Postby DreamerMan99 » 29 May 2017 16:55

lucidé wrote:Our beneficial side is helping preserve lives and possibly in the future, could possibly help spread lives further into other planets. They are predicting in the future, we might discover immortality. There might even be a way to restore and revive life, including our own using DNA research (they wouldn't have their memories so we'd have to reprogram as much of their memories as we could). This means things that were lost in the past could be restored, and we could even live on previously hostile planets. There is even a way being programmed so we don't even have to slaughter animals in the future anymore where they are using organic cloning to create the meat we need to survive instead.

BTW if there was no purpose and life was meaningless, I wouldn't even want to exist at all.


If our beneficial side to life is that we will preserve life, what is the beneficial side to the life that we're preserving? Do you see where I am going with this, lucide?

I don't think immortality will ever be possible. Even if we could remove cellular aging, the destruction of our DNA through years of free radicals, ionizing radiation and simple DNA replication errors would get to the point that a cell would not be able to carry out it's regular functions. Even if we were to circumvent this, we would not be able to avoid the eventual death of our sun into a red giant, engulfing all the planets near it in a fiery ball of death. Even if we were to circumvent this, we would not be able to escape the eventual heat death of the universe.

Why would you even want to live forever? Mortality is what makes us human. If we lived forever, we'd have no motivation. How long before you go completely mad and you lose any bearing on what you once were, what made you human. What it was like to feel loss? The idea of a heaven has always confused me.
Good luck,
Dream on.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Hereafter

Postby Summerlander » 29 May 2017 16:58

lucidé wrote:Our beneficial side is helping preserve lives and possibly in the future, could possibly help spread lives further into other planets.


It could but it doesn't mean that will happen. Many government policies today are going against what is beneficial for us in the long run. Like Donald Trump's denial of climate change and his sponsoring of the coal industry which will only contribute to more pollution.

Why would a conscious, purposeful and intelligent universe---if that's what you propose---produce noxious events that appear to antagonise progress?

Also, we are only talking about human progress here, which involves the killing of many other species considered to be pests that afflict our crops. Why would the universe care about our interests an not those of say, termites, cockroaches, flies and wasps? What makes us so special to say that the universe was made specifically to accommodate us?

In Voltaire's Candide, the main characters consult a dervish---who is considered to be the greatest philosopher in Turkey---about big philosophical questions in an attempt to make sense of the terrible ordeals they had undergone.

So Pangloss said to the dervish: 'Master, we have come to ask you to tell us why such strange animal as man was created.'
The dervish responded, 'What's that to you? Is it any of your business?'
Candide pressed the philosopher: 'But, reverend father, there's an awful lot of evil in the world.'
The dervish, in his wisdom, replied, 'What does it matter whether there's evil or there's good? When His Highness sends a ship to Egypt, does he worry whether the mice on board are comfortable or not?'
Pangloss: 'So what must we do then?'
Dervish: 'Be silent.'
Candide: 'I had flattered myself, that we might have a talk about effects and causes, the best of all possible worlds, the origin of evil, the nature of the soul, and pre-established harmony.'
The dervish, at these words, slammed the door in their faces.

lucidé wrote:They are predicting in the future, we might discover immortality. There might even be a way to restore and revive life, including our own using DNA research (they wouldn't have their memories so we'd have to reprogram as much of their memories as we could).


Might. Might. Might.

lucidé wrote:This means things that were lost in the past could be restored, and we could even live on previously hostile planets. There is even a way being programmed so we don't even have to slaughter animals in the future anymore where they are using organic cloning to create the meat we need to survive instead.


Could. Could. Could.

lucidé wrote:BTW if there was no purpose and life was meaningless, I wouldn't even want to exist at all.


Why not? Can't you come up with your own purpose? Find what makes you feel good?
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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