Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

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Tarpaulin
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Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby Tarpaulin » 02 Sep 2012 16:17

Hi All,

I just had my second lucid dream and the following occurred to me.

We are not lucid in regular dreams because we simply accept the dream reality as "real". we move around in it, do not question it and follow its logic. the progression of events and the context all seem normal. We are as it were "sleepwalking" through our dreams. Then we question that 'reality" and we become lucid and empowered.

In waking life we never question reality. We accept it as "real". We move around in it, do not question it and follow its logic. Could it be that we are "sleepwalking" through waking life? Could it be that we are not "lucid" and that waking reality is very much different to what we unquestionably accept?

could it be that achieving lucidity in the dream state is the first step to achieving lucidity in the waking state? If so.......what is waiting for us to discover in the waking world?

Comments on this very welcome.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 02 Sep 2012 19:22

Thanks for sharing this observation. It's one I have also made. I think we can become a lot more "lucid" during waking life too.

Tarpaulin wrote:could it be that achieving lucidity in the dream state is the first step to achieving lucidity in the waking state?


For some, it could be the first step. For me is one a part of the realization that reality is not absolute, but a relative concept based on experience (that's my belief). I have been thinking a lot about my state of mind during the dream and why it's difficult to become lucid, thinking of things like: but it was kind of obvious that it was a dream because of... or why didn't I notice that...

Then I think about one of my favorite memories of lucid dreaming being the doubts that occur about whether it's really a dream. I love the feeling about the doubts and can still feel the feelings I had during the dream, that fight going on inside, those thoughts: Are you sure it's a dream? This can't be a dream it's so real, this is crazy, no maybe I'm awake.

The real issue is not how real the dream perfectly replicated waking life because it does or doesn't based on your ability to create it which varies. What it really comes down to, is what you believe. In most dreams, you believe that you are awake. In order to become lucid, you have to change that belief.

Likewise, our experience of waking life is based on beliefs too (if you don't believe in an absolute reality). I don't think we are completely creating reality while we are awake, but I think we are in a sense "activating" or "manifesting" it. Kind of like reality existing as something like radiowaves and our human bodies, the receivers and consciousness being the screen.

We are in this life in part to accept and experience, more or less without question, our physical world as being the absolute true, solid 3D reality that exists with or without our participation. It doesn't require us to believe in it, (or at least we can think that if we want) We are able to believe what we want about reality without a lot of interference. I think once you start having lucid dreams, you start to question what is reality a lot more.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby Peter » 02 Sep 2012 21:10

could it be that achieving lucidity in the dream state is the first step to achieving lucidity in the waking state? If so.......what is waiting for us to discover in the waking world?


I think so, the worlds are distinct but also blur in the sense that the lucid and even non-lucid dreams are just another existence and as rich and "real" as waking life but the wonder of this new world and discovery creates a new sense of well being that can be held and extended to the waking world. In a sense you wake up in daily life and have a richer experience. I treat life as a reward and another place to explore with my senses and dont look for any purpose beyond this
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 02 Sep 2012 21:41

Peter wrote:the wonder of this new world and discovery creates a new sense of well being that can be held and extended to the waking world. In a sense you wake up in daily life and have a richer experience.


It has created a new sense of wonder for me, that's for sure. It's such a great feeling the next day or even for days after a good LD. You feel like you've travelled to another world and spent time there experiencing it.

Right now I've been enjoying and thinking about the shift in belief that occurs when you go from believing you are awake to believing you are dreaming. For me there is always this feeling of doubt, of being torn between the conflicting beliefs. Sometimes you are just so convinced that it's not a dream. Sometimes those doubts are minor and sometimes pretty strong. I don't know why, but it's makes me feel especially good to think about that part of it.

I was completely amazed and very surprised how real dreams can be, especially how you can actually touch and feel things. The whole thing is amazing and makes you feel more alive after having it.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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torakrubik
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby torakrubik » 02 Sep 2012 23:37

Since having lucid dreams, i have seriously reconsidered what reality actually is. Having trained my mind to be more alert and to recognize unfamiliar situations has definitely cast doubt as to the seemingly iron-cast simplicity of waking reality. Having experienced the dreamworld in such vivid clarity, all senses engaged, it throws up a question: If this feels as real as waking reality, then how do i know which is which?
Dreaming is my drug

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 03 Sep 2012 00:12

torakrubik wrote:Since having lucid dreams, i have seriously reconsidered what reality actually is. Having trained my mind to be more alert and to recognize unfamiliar situations has definitely cast doubt as to the seemingly iron-cast simplicity of waking reality. Having experienced the dreamworld in such vivid clarity, all senses engaged, it throws up a question: If this feels as real as waking reality, then how do i know which is which?


I've also been noticing a lot of situations in waking life that seem very similar to dream reality, making it even more difficult to be sure. One of the things I had to learn before being able to lucid dream was to stop believing that I could tell the difference between waking and dream realities. I remember getting frustrated about doing reality checks, each time in the back of mind I'd be thinking, "This is stupid, I don't need to be doing this, I can tell it's not a dream." Then one time with same thoughts going on, I looked down and my hand had 4 fingers. I woke up so fast from the shock it almost threw me out of bed!

Once you really see it, there's no going back. It's not like we can be Cyber in the Matrix who knows the truth, but wants to go back because "ignorance is bliss".
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Jack Reacher
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby Jack Reacher » 03 Sep 2012 00:22

Sounds a bit like Inception, that chick ended up killing herself over it. You also gotta ask yourself, what will you be satisfied with? Even if you do wake up into a higher plane, whats stopping you from asking whether that is real or not?
"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 03 Sep 2012 00:50

Here's my theory:

When we leave here and go to that higher plane as you say, there's no more doubts, we know the truth about everything. But maybe we left and came here because it's a bit boring and not enough of a challenge. Imagine if you had access to everything in terms of knowlege and knew the perfect truth about everything? There was nothing hidden, everything on the table so to say. Maybe the state of complete access to all knowlege is just the natural, normal state, not some kind of "Heaven". Just the default condition. So what if we find out that this is just a fabrication that we are participating in? Maybe in the higher plane, I can create any reality, any experience I want there. That would be cool, especially if you could make everything exactly the way you wanted and even experience it on much higher level. But then, on the other hand, it's so prefectly predictable. No chance for anything to go wrong, no surprises, no excitement.

I'm betting that we would want a break from that after a while, instead of that, we might actually want to experience having a choice of believing different things about what reality is, living in a self imposed state of ignorance, instead of knowing it all already. We might not want to know where we came from, where we're going, what reality really is. To live in a world where things can be just taken at face value and accepted for what we think, whatever it is.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby Peter » 03 Sep 2012 01:37

Just dropped a rock on my toe and have not doubts about where I am and how to seperate the different worlds. My use of the dreamscape is not for "higher self" or any other reasons of a similar nature. I am happy with my waking self and dont need to improve me.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Shadow
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming Just The first Step?

Postby Shadow » 03 Sep 2012 07:00

Tarpulin you said
could it be that achieving lucidity in the dream state is the first step to achieving lucidity in the waking state? If so.......what is waiting for us to discover in the waking world?

We achieve lucidity by questioning our reality and realizing that what we experience in our dreams isn't real right ?
So my question is, if you are questioning "reality" and realizing that it might not be real, then why haven't you achieved lucidity in the waking state?

I'm just wondering what do you think that next step is? Buddhists believe that this life is an illusion and spend their life trying to reach enlightenment. My question for everybody is what is that next step. Death ?


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