OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

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HAGART
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby HAGART » 30 Aug 2012 23:58

KylePK wrote: you would know you were indeed outside your body in spiritual or pure-consciousness form and free to roam the astral realm.


I don't believe in a spiritual, astral realm. Sometimes it can truly feel that way. But I have never been to the same place twice and never met the same people again which leads me to believe that it was just a very powerful hallucination of my mind. However that state of consciousness is definitely real, but I don't believe I actually travel anywhere outside my own,... albeit..., incredible imagination.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

KylePK
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby KylePK » 31 Aug 2012 20:04

Yeah, thats how I am beginning to feel. Which is kinda saddening, because despite my unending amazement at the power of lucid dreams, I still wish that it was possible to visit another realm outside our plane of existence.
Striving to live free and enlightened in every way.

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Jack Reacher
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby Jack Reacher » 01 Sep 2012 03:11

The way I see it is if there is another plane outside this existence, the person you are right now cannot experience it in this form, as to experience it and think about it would require a brain and a mind, its a physical process. You wouldnt remember anything when you get back to our normal plane because how could information cross over? You would be a different person, a different being. In order to understand these things you first have to fully udnerstand Identity, something I think we have barely touched on.

Anyway I take the term OBE literally, its an out of body experience, you are not necessarily outside of your body, but you are experiencing something that feels like you are outside of a body. For instance in lucid dreams some of them you have a body and you do stuff, those aren't OBEs. However there are some people here who have had lucid or even non lucid dreams where you dont have a body, you are simply your environment. In my opinion anything that you experience where you dont have a body is an OBE.

Astral Projection however takes this further and says the location of your experience is literally outside of your objective/real physical body and is in a real/objective astral plane. I am very sceptical about this.

However here is something to ponder on an unrelated note, where are our experiences? If I am talking to a friend, is his experience of looking at me sitting right across from me, physically, in his head, and I jsut cant see it?

Another mind bender that gets stranger the more you think about, where is the universe?

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Ryan
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby Ryan » 01 Sep 2012 06:19

OBE... LD... AP...

They only describe the "how" you enter the non-physical and in some cases "how" you describe that which you've experienced.

There are really no fundamental differences between them beyond how aware you are during the experience.

With that said, don't get caught up in labeling your experiences, just enjoy them. :)
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HAGART
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby HAGART » 01 Sep 2012 08:26

Hurricane, Cyclone, Typhoon...
They are all different labels of the same thing and each individual one is different when it comes to air speed, rotation, and size.
So too are our lucid dream experiences and what people want to call it.

Jack Reacher wrote:In order to understand these things you first have to fully udnerstand Identity

Yea, self identity in a dream can be vague sometimes and during a very real, lucid dream I know EXACTLY who I am. (well, do you truly know who you are or are you the product of how others perceive you.... Is our identity just a figment of your own imagination?)
But whatever my 'identity' sometimes I am aware of it and other times (as in most non-lucid dreams) I don't have a sense of self.

Jack Reacher wrote:where are our experiences?

I have pondered where our minds are. They cannot be measured by science. They have no weight, don't reflect light, make no sound. In fact they cannot interact with the physical world at all. The brain is physical, but the mind that is the product of all those synapses and electrical currents doesn't exist physically. BUT THE 'I' INSIDE ME FEELS SO REAL! Where are our minds, memories and experiences? Maybe there IS another plane of existence....
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

KylePK
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby KylePK » 07 Sep 2012 09:06

A lot of people think that sense of individuality we feel is just a mechanism to help us survive in the world; an illusion created by the complex brain. I'd hate for this to be true. But it is possible and plausible. I'd also hate to think that lucid dreaming and astral projection are the same damn thing. I mean, really, the fact that there are various terms to describe one thing bothers me. I hate to be that guy who labels things, but the labels we give these experiences define them; illusion vs reality. And of course, which is which, what is reality as opposed to illusion? But without getting to philosophic, astral projection is claimed to be external. Outside, in another realm, where you can encounter other beings existing outside that realm, who exist there even if you are present. Lucid dreaming is an illusion, it happens within the mind and none of the beings we encounter there are real, or even sentient (or are they...), and as soon as the dream ends, its over for them too. As magnificent as Lucid Dreaming is, I can't help to feel a bit of dissapointment at the possibility that astral projection isn't different. Because I want to explore something outside my own mind. I feel that astral projection would teach me much more about the universe than lucid dreaming. I feel that astral projection might lead me to more truth than lucid dreaming. I dont know. Hahaha.
Striving to live free and enlightened in every way.

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Peter
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby Peter » 07 Sep 2012 21:00

Learn to leave expectations at the door and just dream away. The labels are not important and it does not matter if they are the same or different. Just get in there and explore like a kid in an incream shop, who cares what flavor you are trying, dont seek a flavor just taste them all and they are without limit.

In fact DO this in you next lucid dream, find a shop and taste away.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

KylePK
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby KylePK » 08 Sep 2012 07:51

Peter wrote: In fact DO this in you next lucid dream, find a shop and taste away.


My lucid dreams are too rare xD If I manage to lucid dream soon, I will spend it training my subconscious to promote lucid dreaming and to accept it, so my chances of having them increase. I basically need to tell my subconscious to "pop" into the dreamscape whenever I get vibrations... thats my only problem. Once I solve that, I will taste all the flavors :D
Striving to live free and enlightened in every way.

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Peter
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby Peter » 08 Sep 2012 08:02

its very hard and I think the way you or I choose to get lucid matters less that the fact we believe in it and that promotes the intent. I change how and what I do a lot and this seems to work, its like the SC needs soe new stimulus to get active again. I like WILD best as there is no need to for any checks at all but it is a very hard way to get consistancy, but you do get 100% hits if you get there as there is no doubt you are dreaming.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

KylePK
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Re: OBE vs. Lucid vs. Astral Project

Postby KylePK » 09 Sep 2012 19:57

Yeah, WILD is my main goal right now. I will have quite clear dreams, vivid and realistic, where I will consider the idea that I could be dreaming, or sometimes I dream of lucid dreaming INSIDE. I have dreams within dreams too. But I have a really hard time becoming lucid from within a dream, so I focus on WILD.
Striving to live free and enlightened in every way.


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