Visualization

Discuss lucid dreaming techniques including dream recall, MILD, WILD, meditation and other ways of attaining lucidity in dreams.
Notoriou
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Visualization

Postby Notoriou » 02 Sep 2012 05:08

I'm confused about visualization, I have read the visualization article a few times but it didnt really help. I am wondering:
1) When visualizing a dream scene, does the HI actually form a dream scene that can be "seen"? Or is the dream scene formed from something like image recall or something in the imagination?

2) I am confused as to what HI "looks" like in the first place... all I get is the occasional blob crossing my vision and it almost blends in with the black background, is it supposed to be stronger than that?

3) This is only half about visualization but, I am having trouble putting myself in the dream scene, it always feels vague and out of reach... am I just trying too hard or something? And do you have any suggestions to help with this?

4) Also in the WILD technique, it says to replicate the process of falling asleep, but the problem is, I get half way(or what I think is half way) through the technique and the next thing I know I am waking up the next morning, so I really don't know the feeling of dropping into the dream world, as far as I know it could be different for each person but, could someone explain that feeling to me to the best of their ability?

Thanks for reading, and please leave a response.

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torakrubik
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Re: Visualization

Postby torakrubik » 02 Sep 2012 23:22

1) Yes, eventually your HI, at it's final stages, will be a dream scene that you are observing.

2) What you have described is the early stages. As you relax and continue to observe, you will see geometric patterns and fleeting images appear; this is your HI getting stronger.

3) Your HI needs to be very vivid before you do this. It should be quite obvious when this is as it will be different to fractured images and patterns...however stepping into the dream scene is not easy.

4) Unfortunately this happens frustratingly often to most people, including me. A few failed attempts can't be avoided!
Dreaming is my drug

Notoriou
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Re: Visualization

Postby Notoriou » 03 Sep 2012 08:49

Thanks for replying, but I have one other question. As I said in my fourth question earlier, I tend to fall asleep half way, but on occasion, I have a sensation that feels almost as though I am "dipping" in and out of a dream, sometimes I am jerked back to just blackness behind my eyelids and other times I go in and out a few times and wake up the next morning. But while this is happening I get some audio, normally voices, and little to no flashes of images. If I had to guess, this would be the stronger HI you mentioned, but I always listen to music when I fall asleep, so I am having trouble concentrating on the sensation and end up trying too hard and waking back up; but I can never get relaxed enough to attempt going to sleep without listening to music. Also the music seems to more or less shut off my conscious mind and disrupt my WILD attempt.

So, my question is basically, any suggestions as to what I should do in either falling asleep without music(I also have white noise machine in my room and use ear buds for the music) or staying conscious and focusing on the HI while listening to music?

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Visualization

Postby lucidinthe sky » 03 Sep 2012 23:07

Notoriou wrote:So, my question is basically, any suggestions as to what I should do in either falling asleep without music(I also have white noise machine in my room and use ear buds for the music) or staying conscious and focusing on the HI while listening to music?


I would suggest finding another relaxing technique if, as you say, it disrupts the WILD technique. There are a lot of techniques you can use to relax, people use breathing exercises, counting, visualizing, etc. Find something that works for you and of course, just keep trying.

In my opinion, WILD is the best method for reliable and predictable results, but it takes a bit of effort and it's still hit and miss. The hardest part is the part where you suddenly jump into the dream, I call it the "screen change". It's so cool if you catch it happening, but often there's a brief moment when you lose awareness.

Keep trying, you'll get there!
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

Notoriou
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Re: Visualization

Postby Notoriou » 04 Sep 2012 06:44

Ok, I will do that thanks for the advice, I have read about other people's relaxation techniques, but it never occured to apply them to myself (insert lack of common sense here).

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Ryan
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Re: Visualization

Postby Ryan » 06 Sep 2012 01:22

First, you sound confused as to what "visualization" is.
Try this webpage from Astral Dynamics: http://www.astraldynamics.com/home/new-energy-ways/using-new-full-tutorial/73-part-2-no-visualization.html
Robert Bruce is very straightforward and I agree with every word he says here in regards to Visualization.

Notoriou wrote:Ok, I will do that thanks for the advice, I have read about other people's relaxation techniques, but it never occured to apply them to myself (insert lack of common sense here).

I've always called it "being told that I'm allowed to do something". LoL
Many times I've heard "common sense" statements only to realize... "OH YEAH!! I guess that is smart and I SHOULD be doing that." hehe
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Notoriou
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Re: Visualization

Postby Notoriou » 06 Sep 2012 06:53

Ryan wrote:First, you sound confused as to what "visualization" is.
Try this webpage from Astral Dynamics: http://www.astraldynamics.com/home/new-energy-ways/using-new-full-tutorial/73-part-2-no-visualization.html
Robert Bruce is very straightforward and I agree with every word he says here in regards to Visualization.


Just to make sure I understand, that article (in a very simplified form) said that visualization is not using the actual 5 senses to observe something that, well, isn't there I guess would be the way to put it; but using the imagination to create a scene in which you can simulate the use of the 5 senses in order to better immerse yourself in the scene.

I can have a vivid imagination when I want to so, I have no problem with the "mind's eye" visualization(assuming I understand it correctly). But in the visualization article, (http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/how-to-visualize.html) if you read stage two, what I take from that is that the blobs that normally run across the vision of my closed eyelids should, after some amount of time, fall under some degree of my control. And then from there(stage three) I "pop" into the scene. Both of these ideas seem kind of vague, although it says: "So at this level of focus, I can see a tiger in the blackness, even if he's only made of fluorescence and his face is constantly floating. However, he's definitely there, he's well defined, and I can see him in the darkness." This is what has given me the most trouble, could you explain what it means, in the most tangible means possible; a lot of what is confusing, is that I am having trouble understanding what is happening, I can do image recall(I think this is the mind's eye), I don't have any actual control over the HI I see when falling asleep(I think this is the second stage from the WOLD article), and I definitely haven't gotten to the "pop", but I understand that.

This is kinda just me explaining what is too vague and what I don't understand, there really aren't many questions, but please try to explain as much as you can.

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Ryan
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Re: Visualization

Postby Ryan » 08 Sep 2012 21:00

To paraphrase Bruce...

Visualization isn't a "visual" act. It's a "perceptive" act.

You don't SEE anything... you perceive it. Once you begin to actually visually SEE something, you're not longer visualizing. So don't think you have to see anything in order to visualize.

If I tell you to "visualize a pink polka dotted elephant"... you just read that sentence and probably "perceived" in full clarity and detail a pink polka dotted elephant.

THAT is visualization.
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Jack Reacher
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Re: Visualization

Postby Jack Reacher » 09 Sep 2012 07:11

Eventually it gets to a point where what you visualise is what you see. For instance I will visualise some shapes or something, and I will quickly shift my attention to the HI images. The last thing I visualised will be there in the dots, and will quickly turn into a swirl of random stuff. As I get more tired, it seems that whatever I visualise is what I see in the HI, and eventually my minds eye and what I see merge into one, and I guess this is how the dream is created.
"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

Notoriou
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Re: Visualization

Postby Notoriou » 09 Sep 2012 08:34

Ok, now I understand. So, I would like to thank all of you that took the time to help me understand this, you have been a huge help. As you can imagine, trying to do something that is based on something you dont fully understand is really hard, like doing multiplication without fully undertanding addition. So now that I understand, I think things will become easier; really the only thing I can do at the moment is improve, and you have helped a lot. So, thanks again.

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