Telling time in waking life is altered by mind altering drugs, pain, and pleasure. In the mind-altered state of lucid dreaming, pain and pleasure can sometimes (not always) be felt tenfold so telling time can be altered too. But afterward we can logically guesstimate. For example, as mentioned by Einstein (thanks to Lucid In The Sky): If I was sitting with a pretty girl, it would feel like a few minutes, but if I analyzed it I would be able to make a logical guess, and guesstimate, that it was about an hour... after I piece it all together in my mind... sound like dream recall? Reality recall is hard too sometimes. (Speaking of reality, the pretty girl would probably not sit with me for more than three nano seconds before finding a more athletic, affluent male to court after saying, "who are you? and why are you sitting next to me?). But back to Einstein's other time related scenario. If I touched a hot stove for five minutes... wait, what? Who touches a stove for an a whole 5 minutes? Is Einstein on drugs? Let's leave that be. But anyway, now that I think about it, when we are active (and there is no time more active than a lucid dream), and not sitting in a clockless waiting room, our sense of time is altered.
(time in a regular dream is a whole different topic....)
I like the study Lagerge did with the counting to ten. When I count to ten when awake and check, it usually takes about 13-15 seconds. Although wrong, it was still consistent in the lucid dreams and felt the same as waking life just like all the oneironauts. (<- my new favorite word!). I guess we have an internal 'clock'.
CONVENTIONAL time is a man-made construct of reality... again, another topic.
It all goes back to reality and I question it too. Awake or asleep, perhaps they are both dream states on either end of a continuum, and lucid dreaming is the middle of that continuum.
And it was LucidInTheSky and Peter, I think, who were talking about how we use reality and waking life as a reference point to compare dreams to. Absolutely, we do! And my favorite lucid dreams are the ones that mimic waking life. They are so much more exhilarating. It feels so real. You know what else feels real? The feeling of reality and although we have a sense of touch, taste, sight... the buck stops with your brain and how real can real feel and.... AHHHHHHHHH ! My head exploded....... (I'll recover.)
lucidinthe sky wrote:Up is up because we compare it with the ground.
One time in a lucid dream I layed down and 'up' was not up anymore, but 'up' was in relation to my head. Up was everything above my head from the prone state, not what I saw was 'up'. Then there was a mental shift and I was able to walk as if on flat ground even though I was just laying on a floor a moment ago... Just thought that was interesting.
The other part of lucid dreaming is when I am in the void or meditating in a lucid dream, there is no reality that can compare to WR in any way and I have no body just an awareness of existing so in these moments or states time is absolutely meaningless
If you are sitting on a chair, from your perspective, you are not moving. But from the perspective of someone at a fixed point in space, you are seen to be moving at just over 1600 Km/hour. This is just considering the Earth's rotational speed, but Earth is moving around the Sun and our entire solar system is also moving inside the galaxy and our galaxy is moving inside the universe.
Then if you look at time and space from the perspective of light, neither exist at all.
I think that the universe is made entirely of light energy, so therefore, it has no space or time. If this is the case, our perceptions of both are as Einstien says "an illusion". So getting back to time: just because we experience something, doesn't mean it exists.
just because we experience something, doesn't mean it exists.
LOL I like that, all we had was an experience and what has that got to do with reality
Peter wrote:LOL I like that, all we had was an experience and what has that got to do with reality
Our experience is our reality, what I'm saying is that we define reality from our perspective and it is not a "universal" perspective. We tend to see our world and our reality as absolutes, but they are not because they are defined from our point of reference. My reality contains my lucid dreams which are only experienced from my perspective. From that perspective, they are as real as any experience in waking life, But they are not real to anyone else.
Peter wrote:Agree and that is the point and the contradiction, what we experience is real to us not to someone else and so the term "real" is very open to debate. Real in not an absolute term but a moving goal, I am happy with this because as we add experience we add realness to our own worlds. Real to us or experience is our own world, reality is the consensus so back to the start and that is what has real (our experience) got to do with reality.
This is such a coincidence, i recently ran into a website that is a bunch of synesthetes(person with synesthesia look it up its what I want to lucid dream about) talking about what they percive that is different, and this is so similar in that a nonsynesthete would say that the word is black and the synesthete would say that each letter is colored. Its the same here, both parties are correct based on the information that is percivable to them. I personally have fallen asleep and become lucid only to realize that the clock I looked at in the dream was the actual time in the waking world.
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