The Gateway

Tell us about your first lucid dream - and your latest. We want all the juicy details. Also share results of dream challenge experiments.
Intrepid
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The Gateway

Postby Intrepid » 18 Dec 2012 22:42

Lucid dream 9-29-12

I was on some kind of quest to convince people to join me in a lucid dreaming experience that I had found. The initial dreamscape was late evening, in the courtyards of several buildings. The setting was not at all familiar to me, though some dream characters were familiar faces.
There was a physical gateway that I had discovered which allowed me to enter lucidity from the waking state whenever I desired.
I was taking people into the dreamscape with me from the initial dream setting and helping them to learn prophecies and revelations about themselves through symbolism in the shared dream. It was important for me to be there for some reason.
A giant dog hybrid guarded a physical entrance. It was a cross between a pit bull and a breed that I hadn't seen before.
The entrance was made of stone and continued throughout stone corridors.
There is A LOT that I don't remember, and I specifically recall thinking that it was both the longest dream and lucid dream that I'd ever had. I even said out loud at points: "I cannot believe how long I have maintained lucidity." I did rub my hands together at points to ensure stability, though it didn't seem to be necessary. My clarity was perfect.
On several occasions, I denied sexual urges and impulses in order to follow the "story" and learn.
Basically, I understood my lucidity and my power to alter whatever I wished, but desired to be "taught" whatever lesson was being given by my subconscious.
I took several groups of people through the gateway and they received prophecies for their individual lives, each person receiving several, and most of which I cannot remember. Each lucid dream within the gateway would begin with me explaining that we were going to enter a lucid dream. We would travel through the stone hallways, farther and farther until the walls faded away into a kind of blank slate of consciousness where scenes and visions would come and go, almost as though it was the very canvas of my mind. It's quite hard to describe. The travelers with me were not dreaming before we entered each time, though I was lucid and aware of my dream the entire time. The best way to describe this may be to say that I was projecting from a dream into reality and bringing others back with me. Odd that this would be a theme with me, as I believe that lucid dreaming, astral projection and near-death experiences are one and the same, just in a different context.
There was a journey about a co-worker's wife taking over management of a bar and one about my close friend adopting a parrot. It faded very quickly when I woke up even though I started writing it down right away.
At the end of the lucid journey, I somehow understood/knew that I could astral project straight from the dreamscape and elsewhere into physical reality anywhere that i wished, and I desired to tell my friend, Errity, what had happened. I even thought to go to her apartment and search for something to remember that I could use to prove to her that I'd been there without physically being there (I haven't been to her new apartment which made that the obvious choice). I attempted to give her an object in a previous lucid dream after summoning her in order to test shared dreaming. The idea being that I would ask her the following day if she had dreamt about me and if so, had received anything from me.
I was brought to a city where I began walking towards Errity's apartment. I'm not sure how I knew where she lived. At one point, a black girl in a crowd put my hand on her ass as she walked next to me. This was both odd and disappointing because of its randomness and because I realized I was visible and must not be projecting anymore. I decided that it didn't matter and that I would just tell Errity in person about what I had experienced.

Errity's apartment was on the corner of a hotel (?) and there were a lot of people outside and around the building. I walked in and saw some familiar faces but only specifically remember Vanessa being there. Errity and Charlie were sitting opposite each other on identical brown couches. He was hanging his head and she looked very angry. I sat down next to him and he said "Now is not a good time."
I learned that he had upset her by giving up trombone(?) that he had been doing since middle school and he felt like a failure. There was more to this scene but I don't remember it.

The dream ended with me walking somewhere else and being taunted by a young black kid who I eventually got into a fight with.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Gateway

Postby Summerlander » 19 Dec 2012 02:57

This experience is a little similar to my quest in my lucid dream and it is funny how we can sometimes behave against our beliefs even when we are lucid. How many people have visited in OOBEs/LDs? I've done this a few times before and was surprise to find that, rather than learning about their physical location and what they were doing in waking life, I appeared to have gained a glimpse of what was going on in their minds at the time. When I'd ring them to tell em about my experiences, it was as though they made more sense to them than me. There were also "misses" though. Like you, I also hold the opinion that OOBEs/AP/LD are the same state. I work with Michael Raduga on research. We use the term "phase state" to avoid confusion and ease the study of the phenomenon.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: The Gateway

Postby Intrepid » 19 Dec 2012 03:59

To answer your question, I've only summoned one person intentionally. The dream above was more like a written script that was playing out and I was simply lucid for the duration. I knew I was in complete control, but I chose to refrain from diverging because I was so fascinated by what was happening. It was one of those complex levels of lucidity wherein I was completely lucid but not the director. Some of my lucid dreams are along the lines of attaining awareness in an in uneventful dreamscape and acting out my desires, be they exploration, destruction, etc.

I am very interested in talking with you about your experiences, as your views seem to mirror my own in several ways. I'm having trouble with getting into the "phase" for the most part, and I'd like to know the details of your methods. WILDS have been a very low success rate for me, and I cannot seem to ever remember to DILD when in a groggy, newly-awakened state. Most of my lucids have been from MILD queues, but seemingly at random.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Gateway

Postby Summerlander » 19 Dec 2012 15:34

I'm yet to try a scripted lucid dream but I also love destruction and exploration. Once I was a giant and destroyed a building dwelt by little pixies with pointy ears. The experience made me feel powerful and exhilirated. I woke up buzzing.

I have tried MILD (love LaBerge's awesome advice) but I I think I use the WILD method the most - particularly where the sensation of separating from one's body is concerned. This technique helps me a lot because, even when I have a DILD, I can always try 'separating' into the dream world the minute I feel my physical body laying in bed.

I have perfected my methods of entering the phase by revising Raduga's guide. It includes all sorts of practical methods for reaching the phase state. With DILD/MILD, Raduga calls it the dream consciousness method, in that, if one becomes aware of dreaming, they experience the phase henceforth (no need to return to the body as some people believe because the state is the same, the experience is dissociative and in this sense alteady an OOBE).

Next we have the WILD methods but Raduga outlines variations of these. The easiest is the "indirect method" where one attempts separation from the body upon an awakening but it has to be done within 5 minutes. The other is the "direct method" which is the hardest because entering the phase is attempted with no prior sleep. As advised in many schools for lucid dreaming, all methods work best using the deferred technique where one can sleep first, wake up, be active for a few minutes (the time depends on how you feel) and then go down for induction.

It is all pretty straight forward really. Once in the phase (OOBE, AP, LD - whatever people want to call it) as a rule, we start deepening (amplifying the senses to intensify the phantom environments) and maintain the state using the same techniques as needed. For example, I rub my hands once in a while to prolong the experience. A foul (undesired exit from the phase) isn't necessarily the end. Raduga recommends re-entries as many timrs as you can. Worry about recalling phase experiences later. Plans of actions for the phase are also recommended to avoid hesitation which may lead to fouls. All, it helps to focus on sensations in all realistic actions in the phase. The greater the impact of one's experiences in the phase the more memorable they are. The same in waking life in fact...

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Intrepid
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Re: The Gateway

Postby Intrepid » 19 Dec 2012 16:30

Thank you for sharing your advice. I do quite well once I gain awareness in the phase, whether by chance or by a MILD. I always remember to run my hands together to stabilize as well.

My problem with the wake, back to bed method, is that I lose myself to sleep very quickly. How do you stabilize yourself while attempting entry during this time? When you say separate, is this something that you just concentrate on? When separation occurs, are you now in the phase and beginning a lucid dream (assuming the experiences are one and the same as we agree) in the context of your bed room?
Are you experiencing SP before separation?
I can bring myself to absolute relaxation and stillness very easily, but entering a lucid dream or phase seems to be very elusive. However, like I said before, I have the least experience with trying after I wake up in the night. If this has a high success rate in your experience, I would really like to give it a good try.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Gateway

Postby Summerlander » 19 Dec 2012 20:37

assuming the experiences are one and the same as we agree


I'll tell you my story and what I do now...

One day I was given a book by Michael Powell as a present. The book is called Mind Games. It is mainly about exercising your brain and includes many mentalist tricks. The topic that really caught my eye, besides hypnosis and meditation, was how to have OOBEs and lucid dreams. I guess I became instantly interested in the phenomena because, as a child, I experienced many terrifying false awakenings and often experienced floating upwards from the bed.

The book introduced me to Robert Monroe and his method. I tried his method but at first I would only get vibrations and/or auditory hallucinations. Eventually I managed to cannonball out of my body - at the time I thought my consciousness really had left the physical body because it feels real in every way but the more experience I gained, the more I began to believe that anything can be simulated in such state (including movement).

I started with Monroe and it led me to join a site called Astral Viewers as I searched for people who had the same experiences and where we could share ideas. At the time, I felt that there was something missing in Monroe's method, it wasn't efficient enough and there were some things he recommended which weren't really necessary. In time, Monroe's views began to seem esoteric, dogmatic even... and not really as scientific as he made it out to be.

When I found out about Stephen LaBerge (shame I didn't start with him because he truly holds a more scientific approach and is the don mega of lucid dreaming) my practice improved. He dispelled many myths about the practice for me. Later I would find Michael Raduga and come to work with him on OOBE Research Center research. I was open to astral projection when I first started but the more experienced I became, the more I saw that the notion of visiting astral planes and meeting discarnate beings was only hypothetical, just a belief...

I guess I've always been inquisitive and pragmatic. I had to look at the phenomenon for what it really presented. I had to ask myself what it was really showing me. There was no concrete evidence that what was experienced is objective in another plane of existence and if it appeared so, it was only suggestive. More and more I found myself resonating with this: http://research.obe4u.com/about-the-phase/

Yes, this guy has a no nonsense approach and, if I'm honest, what he says is exactly what I have experienced so far. I had initially fallen into the trap of Monroe "telling it like it is" - and yes, Journeys Out of the Body was the more honest of his literature when he still held a naive and somewhat agnostic stance. But now, I had found someone who really told it like it was and his guide, I must say, helped me to refine my practice. With Michael Raduga, what is practical is primary. Theory is considered but he has no time for the empty ones. He is as reliable as they come and is as blunt as LaBerge. Pick one of the two and you can't go wrong. You are in safe hands with Rebecca too.

My problem with the wake, back to bed method, is that I lose myself to sleep very quickly. How do you stabilize yourself while attempting entry during this time? When you say separate, is this something that you just concentrate on? When separation occurs, are you now in the phase and beginning a lucid dream (assuming the experiences are one and the same as we agree) in the context of your bed room?
Are you experiencing SP before separation?


I use the wake-back-to-bed a lot. What I normally do is this. Ideally, I go to bed at around eleven or midnight and sleep for about six hours. Around 5-6 in the morning, I get up to use the toilet and think about entering the phase and may go over a plan of action.

Around twenty minutes later (this is a time period that works well for me) I return to bed. I lie down in a comfortable position, close my eyes and just relax. I may tense my muscles for a few seconds and then relax them (a bungled version of a method of relaxation that LaBerge has recommended). I may even count to 100 in my head as I breathe in and out: one (breathe in), two (breathe out) and so on... if you relax easy, all the better.

Then, once I feel sufficiently relaxed, I stop everything and resume breathing as normal. I then try to focus on one thing only in my mind (usually it is the ceiling light in my bedroom). Whatever I focus on does not have to be visualised to perfection. It can be just the thought of an object, a vague imagination of its shape, form, colour etc. My meditation starts here (and meditation indeed helps and I am glad Rebecca covers it here).

As I focus on the object in my mind, I discover how 'noisy' my mind really is. Don't let this bother you because it is natural. I start experiencing all these other thoughts begging for my attention but I keep bringing my focus back to the imagined object. You may even find yourself getting lost in these other thoughts a few times but just remember that, every time you stray, just gently bring your focus back to the object. Never get angry with the constant straying of the mind. Don't get angry with yourself, it is counter-productive. Have patience and bring it back to the focus as many times as it takes, like a fun game, like a naughty child that keeps doing the same thing over and over again. The imagined object is your magnet.

Eventually, your body will switch to sleep mode while the mind is still aware. When this happens you will feel different, you will know something is up. Now, a number of things can happen. Images, strange sounds, vibrations etc. may happen during hypnagogia and they are a clear indication that one is nearing the phase state. Sleep paralysis is not always perceived and it is not required to be aware of such.

At this stage, you can do a number of things. Any sensation that arises can be amplified. For example: if you see an image of a place in your mind, you can watch it panoramically, without looking at details, and then shift into it to experience it as a 3D virtual world of the mind. I prefer the following option: any sensations that arise (images, sounds, vibrations etc.) may be amplified and then, once they reach a peak, I separate.

Let's use the word "separation" here for the sake of it because we are now attempting to move away from the perceived physical body stencil. At this point, we are already in the phase, but we are lying down and there may still be some psychological barriers that prevent us from "leaving the physical body", so to speak, in a dream body. To do this, I usually simply get up and out of bed and just go for it even if the sensation feels physically real. Don't think you have ruined the experience. Yes, you may have initial doubts, "Did I get up in the real world or the phase?" - but you can test this once you are up by performing fairly reliable reality checks like a hand going through a wall or levitating or something.

When I was slightly less experienced, I used to separate in this manner: I slowly rolled over and out by starting from the head and finding that the rest of the body followed. If there was perceived resistance, I was forceful. Eventually I got "out" and was able to lucidly perambulate the dream world (almost always a simulation of my bedroom with many inconsistencies).

By the way, in saying all that I have said above, even if you fall asleep while relaxing or meditation, not all is lost. Sometimes phase entrance occurs while dreaming (i.e. delayed lucidity but lucidity nonetheless). The simple reason for this is that you accidentally lost consciousness but regained it during REM sleep. Sometimes I like it when this happens because it often lands me in an environment that is not a bedroom simulation. Becoming conscious while dreaming is still the phase.

If you fall asleep and still fail to reach lucidity while dreaming and then wake up... not to worry. Not all is lost. The minute you wake up without movement... SEPARATE! Don't even wait for sensations to arise. The minute you start feeling a bed surface beneath you and you sense that a dream has just faded, just separate without a shadow of a doubt. This forms part of the shortest of shortcuts in terms of entering the phase. If you manage to nail this simple skill every time you are waking up in the morning (it could be 7 or 8 am even) you will have the world of the phase at your feet. Take a look at this diagram:

Image

You see the shortcut if you wake up and perceive that you are not moving? Separate straight away. If you happen to move physically, then start cycling through techniques (which will then become a slightly longer way to get to the phase). These could be A) visualisation; B) listening in; C) swimming (it may start in imagination until it becomes actual in perception using your phantom body). You spend a few seconds on each until you stick to the one that starts to happen and becomes prominent. The one that yields results should then be amplified and then another separation may be attempted.

If you fall asleep again, catch the next awakening and try the shortcut again. Feel free to ask me any questions on this method. If you can bypass the pain of having to cycle through techniques, then you really don't need a method. The skill of separating as soon as you wake up is sufficient. This is really the easiest way and may shock many beginners out there. That is all it takes really.

"Keep in mind that trying to immediately separate upon awakening is a skill of the utmost importance; one that is worth honing from the very beginning, never forgotten." - Michael Raduga, School of Out-of-Body Travel - A Practical Guidebook (page 219)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Intrepid
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Joined: 29 Jun 2011 13:43
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Re: The Gateway

Postby Intrepid » 19 Dec 2012 22:21

Again, thank you for the input. I will abandon WILD techniques before my first sleep and focus on these skills. I'll be sure to keep you updated about my attempts. If you would like, we can communicate via e-mail so as not to clutter the boards with questions and responses or feedback :)

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Summerlander
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Re: The Gateway

Postby Summerlander » 19 Dec 2012 22:47

Sure feel free to email me and let me know that you are Intrepid! :D
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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