Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

For general lucid chat - ask questions, share advice, set lucid dream challenges and explore the lucid realm together.
KylePK
Posts: 275
Joined: 17 Jan 2012 04:35

Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby KylePK » 12 Jan 2013 08:48

I am finding it really hard to continue my lucid dream attempts because I am finding myself frustrated with my countless failures. I always believed I had the proper intent, because it is something I want to do! But do I need some intent stronger than that? I am starting to give up on my efforts because I see no reason why I shouldn't have found a measure of success yet, and yet I fail time and time again. I am of the belief now that maybe lucid dreaming just isn't for me, and I just stop putting my emotions, effort and attentions into it.

Has anyone felt this way before? What did you do? Continue making attempts (which is futile in my mind now) or did you stop bothering with it?

Its kinda like buying a lottery ticket. I am just so sick of losing that I feel ALL the odds are against me and I should just stop buying into it.
Striving to live free and enlightened in every way.

User avatar
lucidinthe sky
Posts: 1135
Joined: 10 Dec 2011 22:37
Location: Sacramento, California

Re: Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 12 Jan 2013 17:28

I have definitely felt that way before so I know what it's like. Even after success you feel that way at times. It's a little better because you can say "It did happen before so I know it's possible" but that doesn't help me that much. After I go a month with no LD, I get really discouraged and it took me 6 months to have my first.

Of course I wouldn't recommend giving up entirely, but you should probably take a break for a while at least if you are really frustrated. Maybe just concentrate on enjoying your dreams, whatever they be. Just work on recall, record them, etc. Then later decide if you want to try to become lucid again. Re-evaluate and go over everything you are doing and see what you change/try, etc. BTW: How long have you been trying?
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

lumencryster
Posts: 72
Joined: 04 Sep 2012 17:26

Re: Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby lumencryster » 12 Jan 2013 21:37

i look at things a different way. to me, lucid dreaming isn't about success or failure. i just do what i think will help me have a lucid dream and then enjoy whatever happens. give up on trying? i don't think that's going to help you. what i think you should focus on is giving up some ideas. the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, effort. i find that these are all just attempts on the ego to control. and that letting go of that control is all it takes. it may be scary and painful, but i do believe its true.

it seems to me like you can't stand the idea of all that effort doing nothing. i find that in lucid dreaming any attempt to control things that are beyond you're control only hurt you. so if anything, i would suggest just relaxing and not to try to succeed, just try because that itself is the success.

lumencryster
Posts: 72
Joined: 04 Sep 2012 17:26

Re: Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby lumencryster » 12 Jan 2013 22:24

i recently read a book called "true meditation" and i think anybody that gets frustrated with lucid dreaming or meditation can learn a lot from that book. actually i think everybody can learn a lot from it.

User avatar
HAGART
Posts: 3179
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby HAGART » 13 Jan 2013 01:46

The only way you can feel disappointment is if you had expectation. (a Buddhist philosophy, but it is true. All disappointment sprouts from a seed of expectation doesn't it?)
I use to have a few lucid dreams a year and thought they were great, but now if I go a week (like this one) without a lucid dream I start to worry if I ever will again! Because I expect it.
When I get like this I just let it go. I don't give up. I just let it be and don't focus on it. Just sleep and don't expect anything and even non-lucid dreams are wonderful.

And to this day, some of my favorite and memorable dreams were actually NON-LUCID.

So I would say don't give up, but stop trying. Sounds like an oxymoron, but it is not. Stop trying the techniques that make you expect a lucid dream and ultimately leads to disappointment, but still remain conscious of it all the time and aware of it and just let sleep happen however it happens.

(My ideas my not work either and I make no promises. Even I get frustrated and wonder why I didn't LD when it was so OBVIOUS I was dreaming! I don't know of anybody on this site that doesn't feel that.)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

rothgar
Posts: 103
Joined: 18 Oct 2011 14:44

Re: Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby rothgar » 14 Jan 2013 03:54

These posts are right on in my opinion. I agree, some of the best are non Lucid. Just work at recalling your dreams and enjoy them, and at some point you will go lucid since it is always in the back of your mind now anyway. And thats where intent should be. Try to force intent and you will not LD that night...found that out!. Dont force it. You have to be well rested and relaxed anyway, so just enjoy dreaming for now. Your subtle intent you now already have so ignore 'trying' for now.

[ Post made via Android ] Image

KylePK
Posts: 275
Joined: 17 Jan 2012 04:35

Re: Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby KylePK » 16 Jan 2013 09:01

lucidinthe sky wrote: BTW: How long have you been trying?


Its been a year since my first true lucid dream. A whole year this month.
lumencryster wrote: the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, effort. i find that these are all just attempts on the ego to control. and that letting go of that control is all it takes. it may be scary and painful, but i do believe its true.

it seems to me like you can't stand the idea of all that effort doing nothing. i find that in lucid dreaming any attempt to control things that are beyond you're control only hurt you. so if anything, i would suggest just relaxing and not to try to succeed, just try because that itself is the success.


That is easy to say when you don't have an issue with it ;) I don't really try to assert any more control than what is actually necessary, to be lucid. Most the time I just go to sleep and try to remain conscious without certainty of where it will lead. Giving up the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, and effort? That leaves you with what? Without a success or failure there is no motive, no reason. Without reason or motive, there is no conviction. Without conviction, nobody achieves anything. Trying not to succeed is success? I am not sure how you conclude that. I am assuming that you don't have difficulty or struggle lucid dreaming.
HAGART wrote: So I would say don't give up, but stop trying. Sounds like an oxymoron, but it is not. Stop trying the techniques that make you expect a lucid dream and ultimately leads to disappointment, but still remain conscious of it all the time and aware of it and just let sleep happen however it happens.

(My ideas my not work either and I make no promises. Even I get frustrated and wonder why I didn't LD when it was so OBVIOUS I was dreaming! I don't know of anybody on this site that doesn't feel that.)
This is how I have been approaching it lately, but due to this I have been overwhelmed by frustration. This is probably how I will proceed as well, because I know expectation is not a good thing when it comes to lucid dreaming, obe, whatever.

Thank you all for your words of wisdom and opinions! It seems I will be taking a more passive approach to lucid dreaming, by thoroughly exploring my non lucid dreams and experiences as I fall asleep, without expectation or concern. Its hard. Its like wanting to learn a language by just listening to it but not making active attempts to speak it.
Striving to live free and enlightened in every way.

User avatar
lucidinthe sky
Posts: 1135
Joined: 10 Dec 2011 22:37
Location: Sacramento, California

Re: Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 16 Jan 2013 18:05

I understand why you are discouraged, lucid dreaming has been very difficult for me to learn and still is difficult to achieve. Even if you want to continue which of course I would recommend, you should take a break from it. I've had to take breaks all along, still do just because it just takes so much energy sometimes or because of frustration. Sometimes when you stop trying, it just happens so hopefully your more passive approach will help. Hope you stay on the forum. Good luck whatever you decide.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

lumencryster
Posts: 72
Joined: 04 Sep 2012 17:26

Re: Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby lumencryster » 16 Jan 2013 18:40

KylePK wrote:Its been a year since my first true lucid dream. A whole year this month.
lumencryster wrote: the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, effort. i find that these are all just attempts on the ego to control. and that letting go of that control is all it takes. it may be scary and painful, but i do believe its true.

it seems to me like you can't stand the idea of all that effort doing nothing. i find that in lucid dreaming any attempt to control things that are beyond you're control only hurt you. so if anything, i would suggest just relaxing and not to try to succeed, just try because that itself is the success.


That is easy to say when you don't have an issue with it ;) I don't really try to assert any more control than what is actually necessary, to be lucid. Most the time I just go to sleep and try to remain conscious without certainty of where it will lead. Giving up the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, and effort? That leaves you with what? Without a success or failure there is no motive, no reason. Without reason or motive, there is no conviction. Without conviction, nobody achieves anything. Trying not to succeed is success? I am not sure how you conclude that. I am assuming that you don't have difficulty or struggle lucid dreaming.
.

sorry if i sounded rude or arrogant, i didn't mean it. i want to clarify some things. first, i am not very good at lucid dreaming. i meditate a lot, but its a rare occasion when i get a lucid dream. the second is that i am still not that good at letting go of control, or calming my mind. try to understand that we're all struggling along side you, we all have issues we're trying to overcome otherwise we're not trying to get better.

I know it seems counter-intuitive, but what do you do to fall asleep? the more you worry about success, failure, reason, attempt, and effort, the harder it is to fall asleep. on the other hand if you have absolutely no effort, no attempts to have a lucid dream you aren't going to lucid dream. i like to think its more of a balancing act. if you stop focusing on success or failure, you may realize that you were focusing on these things too hard.

User avatar
KungFuPanther
Posts: 100
Joined: 14 Jan 2013 01:35
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Intent and Frustration ---Give up?

Postby KungFuPanther » 17 Jan 2013 02:30

Take it from someone who doesn't achieve at anything. ANYTHING. I struggle with drawing, school, a social life (I'm home-schooled and hardly see the light of day), Even doing simple stupid stuff like running 10 feet (asthma). And just like you, I want to lucid dream so bad, but I probably won't, because nothing I do works.

That's how I used to look at things. Now, I only learned about lucid dreaming 2 weeks ago, And I understand that you haven't had a lucid dream in a year, so I can only imagine what your frustration might be. And you're right, without reason, without drive, nobody would achieve anything. That's exactly how I think. I said the same words myself many times. Instead of forgetting about lucid dreaming for a while, like these guys want you to, (no offense, but that just doesn't sit well with me) try finding other ways.

Edison tried 1000 times to make a incandescent light bulb, but only one time worked? No, Many of the trial light bulbs worked, but only for a couple seconds. Each time he made one he got closer and closer to the working light bulb.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, Take a step back, look at everything you've done to lucid dream, and either find out where you're going wrong or find another way to lucid dream. There's always another way.

I hope I helped, and please don't take me as the kind of guy that thinks they know everything, because I'm not, I just want to help.
...You think that's air that you're breathing?

Dreamers Escape - Kman43759's LD Forum (IM NOT TRYING TO TAKE PEOPLE AWAY FROM THIS FORUM)
http://www.dreamersescape.boards.net/


Return to “General Lucid Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest