LD entry points

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Peter
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Re: LD entry points

Postby Peter » 14 Jan 2013 06:37

There are a few things that I think are needed and one is to be rested first. I have WILD's in the afternoons, early evening and WBTB and always fail if I am tired.

The second is a absolutely rock solid intent to make it work and the contradiction to this is to relax enough to observe the process as it happens. My thought is that all we are doing is going to sleep as we do every night and if we follow this with some detached observation we will drop into a REM sleep and then be lucid.

I try for each step and then when I am solid at that stage work on the next so its a slow methodical learning process that fails a lot. It is worth it but I would say for the early stages of lucid dreaming to keep at DILD or WBTB with reality checks and you will have better success.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: LD entry points

Postby lucidinthe sky » 14 Jan 2013 07:20

Peter wrote:The second is a absolutely rock solid intent to make it work and the contradiction to this is to relax enough to observe the process as it happens.


That is the heart of the matter. It usually only happens for me when the intent/will is at what feels like the limit. That "rock solid intent" you reference is more than just desiring/trying etc. It's a "make it happen" function. It takes all of this intent/will but I wonder if that's just because we are not very efficient yet.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: LD entry points

Postby Peter » 14 Jan 2013 09:17

It takes all of this intent/will but I wonder if that's just because we are not very efficient yet.


I tend to think you are correct but the intend is needed until the results of the intent become second nature. The point is where it is part of you and the grunty stuff is all done in the back ground and so the process is no longer needed, for now I think the intent is needed to drive away all connections to our waking senses and it is this detachment that allows the energy shift away from a meat body and then we put our consciousnesses into this energy body and away we go.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

rothgar
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Re: LD entry points

Postby rothgar » 14 Jan 2013 13:35

Lucid, we seem to have a similar approach to LD, although I am still doing DILD and you are now working on WILD. But I think we both find the process of how we are learning and improving fascinating..... How am I doing it? What are the steps? If I could figure it out I could train others I thought. But so far even my own advice sounds like easterm philosopy which I never before put much stock in....'try by not trying' or 'have intent without effort', or 'let go and let it happen'. I sound like Yoda training Luke! But thats the closest ways I have found to say it. I think it comes with practice but like you indicate, it is learning a skill in a way different from other skills, for sure!

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rothgar
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Re: LD entry points

Postby rothgar » 14 Jan 2013 14:06

Well maybe ONE thing seems different in my dream entries.... I dont think I ever experienced anomalies triggering an LD until recently. I used to just accept the oddity. I would read in EWLD and other books about that triggering lucidity but my awareness was too low I guess to realize something is too weird to be true. But anomalies are starting to be noticed. Last night I was steering my car by pointing a steak knife in the direction I wanted to go. Usually I notice these dream signs because when I awaken I recall them clearly. So they somehow are noticed by me without triggering awareness. But last night (and other recent occurrences) I eventually said 'hey, I dont usually steer a car with a steak knife' and did become lucid. So I am HOPING my awareness is improving. My rate of LDs is up so I think so...

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: LD entry points

Postby lucidinthe sky » 14 Jan 2013 22:04

It's an interesting conversation and hope it continues. I want to compare notes with others to hopefully learn to make the transition from awake to lucid dream with less effort.

What I'm focusing on now is the thought patterns that proceed HI and dream stages. They are fairly distinct and different from when I am awake. That's the first stage and transition point for me between waking and dream. Once those thoughts start, I go right into the dream stage. Trying to learn how to induce them and then go right into being lucid.

Right before the dream images start to appear, the thoughts start to become illusive and more like dreams. You can't get back what you were thinking about just a second ago. I once had a voice tell me to listen to it and what it said would put me right into a dream. The words started coming and they kind of made sense at first, but slowly turned into the kind of thoughts you have right before the dreams. Just drew me right into the dream state. That particular time I was also able to become lucid. Really wish I could remember exactly how that worked so it could be repeated. So hopefully I can learn how to create those kinds of thoughts myself.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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HAGART
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Re: LD entry points

Postby HAGART » 14 Jan 2013 23:01

I've experienced each of those type of 'entry points'. And I can't think of any other, yet perhaps some are very similar and can be lumped into one larger category such as all the DILD ones. Whether spontaneous, or after a RC, or from a bizarre dream sign the only difference is how long it took to convince you and how you realized, or what you did to realize. I agree that they are different. but those three are similar and perhaps part of a larger category. Then WILD is a whole other story! Could be directly into a dream, OBE, or a bout of sleep paralysis with that shadow guy. SO i can say I have experienced 7 actually and I bet there are others, but I don't know them but I am sure they can fit into the two main categories: DILD and WILD.

Anyway, there are many ways to become lucid and I actually can't think of any other entry points that I have experienced and those 4 are the main ones aren't they?

And also, no matter how much I lucid dream, sometimes I have a bizarre regular-dream and after I wake up I am completely surprised that I was not lucid. IT WAS SO OBVIOUS. Then other times I am in a dream, walking and looking at my feet and suddenly and spontaneously realize I am dreaming out of no where. NO matter how it happens and which entry point occurs whether you choose it or not, the main thing is having the right frame of mind at the time and it is still a mystery to me why it can be easy one day, and elusive the next.
Last edited by HAGART on 14 Jan 2013 23:14, edited 1 time in total.
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rothgar
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Re: LD entry points

Postby rothgar » 14 Jan 2013 23:12

Lucid, what was your motivation for switching to WILD? Was it to start LD earlier in the dream? I like DILD since I avoid SP, HH and what seems like a lot of effort. I LD 2 or 3 times a week without any real effort or time expendature. But.... I join the party late and wake up too soon. I am trying to decide if WILD would be better or just working on stabilizing and DEILD if I wake up. I wonder if people can WILD more frequently than DILD. I think so, but then either method takes real skill and right conditions I think.

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Peter
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Re: LD entry points

Postby Peter » 15 Jan 2013 02:42

I does not matter what way we enter, WILD suits me as I am up all hours and so it is natural for me to put my effort there and If I fail at a WILD is gets me into a good sleep so I am happy either way. DILD is great but requires (for me anyway) either intent at the start and I may as well try WILD or a lot of realty checks to get the results
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: LD entry points

Postby lucidinthe sky » 15 Jan 2013 03:29

rothgar wrote: Lucid, what was your motivation for switching to WILD?


I always tried to WILD, but more often than not ended up having a DILD instead. A lot of times, I have a short period where I lose awareness, but if I remember what I was doing I can DILD. But for me, just doing DILD alone is too random and depends on waking up the part of you that has fallen asleep. The part of you that is creating the dream of course will never see that it's unusual because it's seeing exactly what it made in the first place, no matter how strange we might think it is. The part that recognizes that it's dream, that says that's very strange, maybe it's a dream is difficult to activate during the dream. It works better for me with WILD because that part of you never goes to sleep in the first place.

rothgar wrote:Was it to start LD earlier in the dream? I like DILD since I avoid SP, HH and what seems like a lot of effort. I LD 2 or 3 times a week without any real effort or time expendature. But.... I join the party late and wake up too soon.


Yes, getting into the dream at the start is a big advantage to WILD. You know you are going to get the maximum time out of it and since there is never enough anyway :) , you need to get everything you can.
Also I've had two WILDs now where I went straight into a super completely real lucid dream after just seconds of effort. It's really my goal at this point to learn to replicate that, it is deifnitely the ultimate LD entry.

rothgar wrote: I am trying to decide if WILD would be better or just working on stabilizing and DEILD if I wake up. I wonder if people can WILD more frequently than DILD. I think so, but then either method takes real skill and right conditions I think.


It's important to do what's work best for you, but also to get the most out of it. Of course trying new things is good too.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus


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