Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

What have you learned from your dream characters? What do they say, what do they represent, what motivates them, why do they exist?
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HAGART
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Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby HAGART » 17 Jan 2013 21:50

Dream Characters, DC's,... call it what you will, but they come in many forms and I've decided to delve into this aspect of lucid dreams and study them. Anybody who lucid dreams has met one in one form or another, but I am starting to realize that, although there are an infinite number of possible dream characters, they can be catagorized into major and minor groups and studied much like examining any other life form we encounter on this planet... (or even universe). Who are they? What are they? Why do they behave the way they do?

And I'm not talking about the mindless, zombie-type, people that seem to have no consciousness. I believe they are not dream characters, but just people that populate the dream, especially if you are in a city in a lucid dream and see a crowd. There may be many people, but they are not sentient. And, on the other hand, some inanimate objects can speak and seem sentient and you can feel that there is an 'entity' there. So what I mean by a dream character has nothing to do with what it looks like, but whether it seemed sentient and you can speak with it or it speaks with you. And even if it doesn't speak at times, you just FEEL that it was a presence.

I thought about it and categorized the dream characters into groups base upon how aware they are in the dream and how much personality they have.

1) The Zombie. It doesn't communicate and walks aimlessly without purpose (not a DC as I would define, but the most basic type of 'human' we may encounter. BUT not really a dream character I would say even though it appeared human. It is no different than an object in the background really when you think about it.

2) (No name for it) The most common type of DC that I can talk to, but will never know that it is a dream even if you prove it. I can make an object move with my mind and show them, but they will always say something like, "Well, anybody can do that!" Most friends and family members I meet in a lucid dreams fit in this category. You'd think they would have the same personality that they have and we know all so well when awake, but in my experience they don't have much personality and speak only when spoken to.

3) The subconscious incarnate. It knows a lot, and knows it is a dream, but these people, and sometimes just objects that speak, don't have much personality at all and say things matter of fact without emotion. When I speak with them I tend to use questions that have a yes or no answer because otherwise they may start to speak with random words without sentence structure and it gets confusing. I almost feel what they are trying to say, but when I recall it after the dream I have no idea what they meant by those random words.

4) (no name for it) The person that has a strong personality and speaks to you without needing to be spoken to, yet when you ask them where they are or try to tell them it is a dream, they too dismiss the idea and will never be conviced. But they have a personality all their own and more developed than #2 or #3.

5) (no name for it) Finally, the people you meet that have both a personality all their own and also know that it is a lucid dream. In fact, it can feel at times like you are meeting somebody on another plane of existence. Complete opposite of the #1 Zombie, these DC's seem to actually know more than yourself and there is no need to convince them it is a dream.

6) The silent one. They seem wise and you can feel that they are a alive or an entity of some sort, but it will never speak to you and never answers your questions. I only had this happen once and it may be linked to one of the other types I describe.


So these main types I categorized are based on how aware they are it is a dream and how much personality they have beyond your own in the dream. I believe they are aspects of our own psyche, but that is just a broad idea and want to examine them closer, in more detail. Like studying animals or other lifeforms we encounter in waking life. I want to try to be purely scientific, focusing mainly on the facts, but we have to inject some theories in from time to time too.

So, please share your experiences with dream characters or entities you meet in your lucid dreams and see if we can place them in any of these categories, or prove me wrong (I didn't put too much thought into this, so am open to ideas), or create a new category or whatever. I am curious so I question..... I like to study lucid dreaming, but in a dream, science is thrown out the window so it is hard to study scientifically and it can never be replicated and proven. But it is worthy of discussion.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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KungFuPanther
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby KungFuPanther » 17 Jan 2013 23:23

I think that sometimes these characters can exist not only in lucid dreams, but in normal dreams too. My little brother was in my dream last night (a normal dream, that turned into my frst lucid dream) and he told me that I was dreaming! So I think that would put him as a level 5 DC.

You might have missed one, There's also the DC that you can make, and doesn't do or know anything more than what you want him to do.

Well, once I get the hang of this lucid dreaming stuff I'm going to perform an unusual DC experiment. You can read about it in my thread "Slender Man Challenge" but if you don't know who Slender is, do yourself a favor and don't get curious. :D
...You think that's air that you're breathing?

Dreamers Escape - Kman43759's LD Forum (IM NOT TRYING TO TAKE PEOPLE AWAY FROM THIS FORUM)
http://www.dreamersescape.boards.net/

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HAGART
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby HAGART » 17 Jan 2013 23:41

I thought of 2 more dream character or entities that I have experienced.

- Animals They behave like an animal, but don't speak. I mostly experience dogs and cats since I have had them as pets before and feel a sort of friendship with them. They are just like the real deal in waking life and although they don't speak, have more essence to them than the first, Zombie-like DC I describe. Even though those first DC's I describe may be human these animals have more personality.

- Sleep Paralysis Monster I use to get this frequently, but not so much anymore, but you can feel the presence in the room even before you see it. They seem to be an entity of some sort and therefore a Dream Character, but usually take on a shadowy form since we don't recognize them as anything we know in waking life. But it certainly feels like there is an entity or living thing beyond ourselves with us at the time.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby HAGART » 17 Jan 2013 23:55

KungFuPanther wrote:I think that sometimes these characters can exist not only in lucid dreams, but in normal dreams too.


You are absolutely right. I meet people in non-lucid, regular dreams as well, and they are significant to the dream. Mostly friends and family, but sometimes they are strangers, and I take note of what gender, age, and race they are compare to my own. That is significant in dreams. Don't know why and there are some theories, but worthy of taking note of because it was no accident. You subconsciously thought them up for a reason.

But when in a non-lucid dream, I can't question them with a lucid mind which is what I want to experiment with. Like a scientist as best I can.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby Summerlander » 18 Jan 2013 00:24

Whatever they are, it seems that our minds are quite experienced in creating grand illusions of sentience in dream figures. This is attributed to our lifelong exposure to the various types of human behaviour we see in other people. These dream characters can also reflect the entelechy of the theory of mind that we have been developing from the very start of our conscious lives. I believe they are semblances of the various types of sentient beings that we can conceive in imagination and they may be used as mediators in communication between the waking self and the subconscious mind.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby lucidinthe sky » 18 Jan 2013 02:24

Glad you started this thread. I'm going repost something on the subject that I never got a response on.

I'm interested in the roles that DCs play and in particular about conversations/interactions with them, if and how that changes when lucid. Wondering if we put the DCs there for a specific purpose and that's it. Like if they were actors/actresses in some play: they have a role, maybe some lines, maybe not. Then we come into lucidity and suddenly the play can be changed. We interact with them in ways that maybe weren't part of the original script. How good are they at ad-libbing? Maybe as good as we are at helping them with their new lines?

Sometimes my DCs are looking at me as if to say "Hey, I don't have any lines in this dream." Other times they say things, but if I change the subject, they seem lost: Something like "sorry, but that's not part of my data set". Often my dreams seem to be minimalistic in that they only have the bare essentials that are required, and of course in LD we are looking for adventure/excitement.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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HAGART
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby HAGART » 18 Jan 2013 04:11

Summerlander wrote:Whatever they are, it seems that our minds are quite experienced in creating grand illusions of sentience in dream figures. This is attributed to our lifelong exposure to the various types of human behaviour we see in other people. These dream characters can also reflect the entelechy of the theory of mind that we have been developing from the very start of our conscious lives. I believe they are semblances of the various types of sentient beings that we can conceive in imagination and they may be used as mediators in communication between the waking self and the subconscious mind.


I agree. The 'personalities' can seem so real and flawless and yet we are lucid and know what is going on, when we question where they are or who they are, they go duh?!? (sometimes) But we created that sentient personality so real in the first place and if there is a 'consciousness' behind it, that too is created by our own incredible creative minds. The mind is capable of seemingly miraculous things! I am well aware. But I question why?!, I am always aware that they are not real (even if they don't believe it) and after I wake up I question WHY? Why that form? Why did they have a limited awareness of the lucid dream or a vast awareness of the lucid dream? WHY?

I agree with you, but I am starting to ask WHY? Why is hard to answer.
At least I learned the word 'Entelechy' <-- had to use the old interweb.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby HAGART » 18 Jan 2013 04:35

lucidinthe sky wrote:I'm interested in the roles that DCs play and in particular about conversations/interactions with them, if and how that changes when lucid.


I am also interested, but when non-lucid I don't have the thought to even question the people in dreams. I do remember conversations with DCs in non-lucid dreams, but I am not in the frame of mind to take a scientific approach and question them or grill then if you will. Find out what makes them tick and report back what your findings are.

lucidinthe sky wrote:Sometimes my DCs are looking at me as if to say "Hey, I don't have any lines in this dream." Other times they say things, but if I change the subject, they seem lost: Something like "sorry, but that's not part of my data set". Often my dreams seem to be minimalistic in that they only have the bare essentials that are required, and of course in LD we are looking for adventure/excitement.


This sounds like the type of DC that has no personality and only speaks if spoken to. This is very common for me and they are only stumped if you give them an open ended question and allow them to speak freely. Or they may simply say, 'I don't know!" They do 'lose their lines' as you put it.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby lucidinthe sky » 18 Jan 2013 06:02

HAGART wrote:
I am also interested, but when non-lucid I don't have the thought to even question the people in dreams. I do remember conversations with DCs in non-lucid dreams, but I am not in the frame of mind to take a scientific approach and question them or grill then if you will. Find out what makes them tick and report back what your findings are.


I actually did question a DC recently in a non-lucid dream and really got an interesting answer, something totally unexpected (or it seemed anyway). I have to believe most of DCs in dreams are there for a purpose, although some are just "extras" for window dressing. The classical interpretation is that they are all parts of ourselves so we are in a sense "talking to ourselves". When we meet them in a dream there is a reason for the meeting and a conversation will have a specific purpose. However when we are lucid, we start making choices that might not be part of "the plan". At that point we are improvising and the real challenge is to have the abilities needed to continue the entire thing and also provide the dialogs, etc. I am quite good at creating scenery, structures, machines, etc. all complete with real sensory inputs. But when it comes to creating real DCs capable of responding to unprepared-for questions, that's another story. One thing I am learning though is not to ask stupid things like "hey you, have you are ever been in someone's dream? Isn't that really crazy? What do you think of lucid dreaming?" etc. My DCs generally act like I'm stupid when they hear these types of things, or they just deny everything or make excuses why they don't know it's a dream. I tried to show one DC my hands and how the fingers were wrong. I was so excited about showing him, but then he just said "well, you know my eyes aren't that good, bla bla bla.

HAGART wrote: This sounds like the type of DC that has no personality and only speaks if spoken to. This is very common for me and they are only stumped if you give them an open ended question and allow them to speak freely. Or they may simply say, 'I don't know!" They do 'lose their lines' as you put it.


Yes, most of my DCs are like this, but as you say, it's better to not give them open-ended questions. I think I'm going to start telling them what I want instead of asking questions. Like "Hey you, bring my motorcycle over here", or "Buddy, grab me a burger, with cheese and hold the pickles." Let's see what they do with that!
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

KylePK
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Re: Dream Characters: Let's explore them further.....

Postby KylePK » 18 Jan 2013 09:39

They are beings from other realities. As Tom Campbell would say, if they are helpful, then does it matter if they are in your mind or outside your mind? I agree.
Striving to live free and enlightened in every way.


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