Thank you so much,
In dreams about lucid dreaming, everything seems planned and "flat" for a lack of a better word. By flat, I mean that nothing stands out as being different, it seems more or less scripted. The biggest thing for me is the conscious decision process, making choices you are aware of. These are not present in non-lucids. Having thoughts like "I know this is only a dream, but I wonder what would happen if I did such and such?" Then acting on it. or "I'm not going to say anything to this dream character" Or "O.K. great I'm dreaming, let's not get too excited" etc. I had one where I was thinking about what my body was doing in bed, another thinking about what I was going to post on this forum. Those are definitely lucids. And you remember having these thoughts after waking. But when everything that happens seems to be just be part of the dream and all on the same level, then I know it wasn't. I've dreamed about seeing 3 fingers on my hand, but when I woke up didn't remember deciding to look at my hands, always remember that in lucids.
Another is the memories. Lucid dream memories stand out from the rest of the dream and also fade more slowly. Lucid dream memories are more like waking life memories than dream memories. You will remember those lucid thoughts as separate from the rest of the dream.
There's the "AHA" moment. A lot of times I remember thinking something like "got it!" Sometimes it doesn't stand out much, other times is very obvious. But that moment is generally there and memorable.
Those are some of what works for me.
I got back to bed with the intention of remaining conscious while drifting to sleep. The next thing I know, I'm in a dream and I know it's a dream. The rest is a vivid dream, with actions I normally do while on a LD, such as requesting clarity and control.
The details that made me doubt I was really lucid this time:
- The dream wasn't a WILD. There was a blackout of consciousness between falling to sleep and the dream starting. I can't really say for how long, but several minutes. No hypnagogic state.
- As soon as the dream started, I knew it was a dream. A DILD starts by a normal dream, i.e. you think it's reality.
- Now thinking about it, I didn't have a real control over my actions. Before going to sleep, I had written a plan of what to do the next time I would LD. And I didn't follow that plan at all. At all times, I was reacting to the dream's scenario (which involved meeting a wise man and walking to a park to have a chat with him).
So yes, it's very possible to dream that you are lucid dreaming, it happened to me this morning.
For a moment, I took this idea even further, and wondered if all the LDs I've had could actually be dreams about lucid dreaming. For Freud, dreams represent the will of the unconscious mind, and this theory is accepted in the scientific community. If you become really motivated in lucid dreaming, and you're writing affirmations such as "I become lucid in my dream", it will become a motivation of your unconscious at some point.
But I dismissed this idea that all LDs are dreams about lucid dreaming, because I've had a few experiences of lucid dreaming when I was totally uninterested in the subject. The best example being obviously the very first time I realised I was dreaming, I didn't even know this was possible.
I feel that dreaming about lucid dreaming is a term used for when there are instants of lucidity within a vivid dream but to me that is what it is, instants of becoming lucid but not the will or experience to sustain the state, I would not call this dreaming about lucid dreaming but see it as two states like waking and sleeping. It possible to drift to sleep for an instant and wake up and drop into a dream for an instant and wake up so are dreaming about waking or waking about dreaming or just experiencing two state in real time but they have clear distinctions and experience dictates the boundaries
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rothgar wrote:To me there are varying degrees of lucidity. But the question is whether you made a conscious decision or followed the script. Also were you 'there' or observing? I am bad about remembering to do preplanned actions, but it is definitely me in that dream, not a DC of me.
Thanks for asking rothgar. Although I knew it was a dream, I followed the dream's script (like in any non-lucid dream). I actually copied the report of that dream there: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3231
As you say, there are different levels of lucidity. This dream was visually quite vivid (simply because I took the time to look at the dreamscape), more so than others that I consider more lucid. I remember 2 less vivid dreams where I performed actions I had planned while awake: falling backwards (to try this: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dreaming/55398-how-convert-lucid-dream-obe.html). So I consider those 2 dreams more lucid that the one we are discussing here.
I'm not convinced we should dismiss the theory of "dreaming of being lucid", because I realised that the subconscious is very powerful, and could create such schemes.
Let me illustrate how powerful/intelligent the subconscious can be. It was a while ago, and I didn't write the dream, but it was like the 6th Sense movie. I hope you have watched it, otherwise stop reading to avoid the biggest spoiler ever . In the 6th Sense, the main character (played by Bruce Willis), is a ghost from the very beginning, but this is revealed only at the very end. All the movie is shot making sure that the character never interacts with objects of the physical world (opening doors, moving objects, etc...), in order to keep the movie "well put together".
So in my dream that made me realise how "smart" the subconscious can be, it was a bit the same: the way the dream was "played" was only possible if the final scene was already planned before all the others, to keep the whole story consistent.
If the subconscious can create such complex stories, why couldn't it give you the impression that you are lucid, but in fact you're just following the scenario you are in?
To me, the very concept that most people refer to as a dream of a lucid dream simply can not exist... as you're either aware that you're dreaming or you're not aware that you're dreaming. It's a yes or a no answer... no grey area. So for me it's very straightforward.
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