What are your religious views?

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What are your religious views?

Deeply religious - I follow a strict religious code and trust my life to a higher authority
22
19%
Somewhat religious - I believe in a higher intelligence watching over us
38
32%
Agnostic - I'm on the fence; you really can't say either way at this time
29
25%
Atheist - I don't believe there is a higher intelligence watching over us
29
25%
 
Total votes: 118

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Summerlander
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 28 Jan 2013 17:25

This seems like it's going to be an interesting debate. My wife got me Christopher Hitchens' "God is not Great" for Christmas but I haven't got round to reading it yet. To those Creationists who point at complexity as evidence for intelligent design: Listen to Lawrence Krauss and realise how absurd your argument is.

There is no fine-tuning (hello! War, disease, birth defects, famine, killer weather, deadly space beyond this planet save the few earth-like planets...) and complexity only evidences millions and millions of years of evolution.

Secondly, as Krauss will reveal and CERN scientists would back him on this, it is perfectly natural for something to arise from nothingness. The problem with these Evangelists, who keep changing their exegesis in accordance to new discoveries and twist the truth, is that they mistake physical nothingness for absolute nothingness.

The vacuum is charged with energy. It's like a zero followed by decimal places. Absolute nothingness is when there is no space. This is the equivalent of what's between two objects that are stuck together.

Once again, I will iterate to the religious that God remains a mere hypothesis in the realm of science - I think this is a polite way to put it. The likelihood of God existing is equivalent to that of fairies hiding in the woods or people's gardens. You can't prove they don't exist but you can't prove they exist either. To maintain a rational stance we have to follow evidence. There is no reason whatsoever for me to start rationally believing in God and plenty of evidence for me to conclude that the Almighty, as described by holy scripture and the faithful, is bogus. :|

It's patently obvious. This charade began at a time when people knew less and needed a quick answer. It's so outdated that I can't believe most of us still look to the past for answers about the nature of reality when we are now in a better position to make better assessments and derive superior logic.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Vaellian
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Joined: 23 Jan 2013 00:08

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Vaellian » 30 Jan 2013 01:10

I'm Agnostic. cause i'm a logistical thinker most of the time. i'm a 20 year old from new york. i know gosh-darn Diddly squat about anything except video games There could be a great-creator. but at the same time. to just cast my belief in a being just because other people do and there's a book would too be ignorant. i choose to not choose. just cause there are books on harry potter, doesn't mean he's real... but it doesn't mean he can't be in some form.

Also to people who like to say "these conditions are too good for us. how else would we have survived" sorry to bring this fact up. but take into consideration the FACTS of how big the universe is... this is an understatement. but over 100 billion planets and millions of galaxy's with their own solar systems stars and such 'n such... at least one planet would have HAD to get it right. and i'm sure there are others that are supporting life somewhere. we just haven't found it... also we Evolved and adapted to this planet. which is why it seems to be so perfect

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Summerlander
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 31 Jan 2013 10:16

A lot of valid points there, Vaellian.

I'd also like to quote Christopher Hitchens:
"That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

To me, God is as valid as Santa Claus.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 01 Feb 2013 07:37

Summerlander wrote:This seems like it's going to be an interesting debate.


I didn't see anything in this thread that suggested it was going to be a debate, although it sure looks like you are trying to turn it into one. Those of us with faith in God would like the freedom to express our beliefs here too without being subject to your constant barrage of insults and bully tactics because you have to be right. No one who believes in God has the slightest interest in proving it to you. You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, but please stop trying to pass off EVERYTHING you say as fact and constantly lecturing everyone who doesn't share your opinion.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

Vaellian
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Joined: 23 Jan 2013 00:08

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Vaellian » 01 Feb 2013 08:16

lucidinthe sky wrote:
Summerlander wrote:This seems like it's going to be an interesting debate.


I didn't see anything in this thread that suggested it was going to be a debate, although it sure looks like you are trying to turn it into one. Those of us with faith in God would like the freedom to express our beliefs here too without being subject to your constant barrage of insults and bully tactics because you have to be right. No one who believes in God has the slightest interest in proving it to you. You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, but please stop trying to pass off EVERYTHING you say as fact and constantly lecturing everyone who doesn't share your opinion.


Butt hurt alert. nobody is forcing... at least from what i read. Christians to be "right". and generally speaking me telling people that i'm agnostic "I" get barraged with insults about how i'm going to hell

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 01 Feb 2013 08:54

Vaellian wrote: Butt hurt alert. nobody is forcing... at least from what i read. Christians to be "right". and generally speaking me telling people that i'm agnostic "I" get barraged with insults about how i'm going to hell


I don't believe anyone is going to hell and I was responding to comments made on this thread, not on things people have said to me over my lifetime, that wasn't part of the discussion. If there were some posts on this thread where anyone told you or anyone else that they were going to hell I must have missed them. Please point them out for me. But I do see a lot of self-righteousness and judgment coming from people who don't believe. It everyone's right to believe what they want, just don't shove it down my throat please. Although I believe in God, I do not consider myself to be a religious person and find it equally upsetting when the religious people do the same thing.

As far as I can see, this thread is about "beliefs" and it looked to me like we were invited to share them, not to be prepared to prove them or get into an endless debate here. There was also no indication that our beliefs were meant to be scientifically-based beliefs only. It's not necessary to prove the things you believe in to anyone else. They are still valid for you and you have the right to be treated with respect. If you don't believe, that's fine just say it and why if you want. But don't tell everyone else why they are wrong because they don't agree with you.
Last edited by lucidinthe sky on 01 Feb 2013 10:08, edited 1 time in total.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 01 Feb 2013 09:43

This is one of topics that will attract polarized views and is why I have stayed out of it for a while. I will say that is ok and the purpose of this board to share opinions and views and that they will differ. Agreeing to disagree and keeping with the purpose is what we need to do so lets keep it that way if possible.

Peter
Moderator
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 01 Feb 2013 10:26

Peter wrote:This is one of topics that will attract polarized views and is why I have stayed out of it for a while. I will say that is ok and the purpose of this board to share opinions and views and that they will differ. Agreeing to disagree and keeping with the purpose is what we need to do so lets keep it that way if possible.

Peter
Moderator


The topic is an interesting topic and we can learn from listening to other people, not telling them why they are wrong over and over. Everyone is welcome to share their opinion without feeling like to they have to be on the debate team. The topic says: "what are your religious views" not "why are other people's views wrong (please repeat 10 times).
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Summerlander
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 02 Feb 2013 01:58

To lucidinthesky:

Science is not about having faith or holding onto beliefs. Science is about seeking answers. To believe in God and to be religious is to give up on finding the real answers for how the world is. What is proved in science should be valid to everyone because we all share the same objective reality. You cannot compare science with the workings or tenets of religions. To do so is simply unrealistic.

Meanwhile, theists have a duty to prove to the rest of the world that a God exists and so far they have failed miserably. Science has even tried to help them and so far nothing. You cannot claim that something exists without evidence. The onus is on God-believers to prove it because they are the ones who tend to spread their beliefs literally like gospel and expect everyone to adhere to religious doctrine.

They are the ones who have missionaires who speak about "salvation" like the rest of us are ignorant and doomed if we don't convert. Moreover, they want their faiths taught at schools. By exposing our children to their doctrine they can hinder their freedom to think for themselves. Don't you think they owe the rest of the world a good reason to believe or something realistically substantial that gives them the right to spread their hocus pocus and to mentally abuse young human beings. You feel offended that I am informing people here and claim that I am shoving this down your throat? How do you think I feel when on my way to take my kids to school there is a group of Jehovah's Witnesses trying to indoctrinate parents and children alike with leaflets and scaring the young ones with doomsday prophecies?

Nobody is bullying you, that's just how you perceive it (and I feel sorry for you if you are that sensitive) because you don't like the facts I've stated. If you say you believe in God, it cannot be the same God of Christians or Muslims. Such God condemns people to hell and bribes others with hedonistic heavens dwelt by renaissance angels or pretty virgins.

And did you know that if you are an atheist you can't possibly be the president of the United states of America? Obama is officially Christian but he was still accused of being an atheist during election campaigns like it was a crime. So forgive me for speaking out when my atheistic group, which is a minority in America as well as here in the UK, is largely ostracised. We are like women in a nation run my misogynists. To ask them to change their sex is simply immoral.

If people come here to express their opinions and want to engage in debate, why not? I see no harm in it. In fact, it can be a great boon to the undecided as they will undoubtedly find lots of information here that will help them to make up their minds. That way, the thread is informative and doesn't go to waste. The poll continues and in all honesty I hope people see the light in atheism. I'm not forcing people to choose. I'm not pointing a gun at them. People can decide for themselves.

Politicians try to convince people of many things. Things we don't like or agree with. However, we have to put up with them until they have served their term.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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lucidinthe sky
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Location: Sacramento, California

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 02 Feb 2013 04:14

Summerlander wrote: To lucidinthesky:

Science is not about having faith or holding onto beliefs. Science is about seeking answers. To believe in God and to be religious is to give up on finding the real answers for how the world is.


Yeah right, everyone who believes in God has given up finding the "real" answers. This is again your opinion, so please stop trying to pass it off as fact like everything else you say.

Summerlander wrote: Meanwhile, theists have a duty to prove to the rest of the world that a God exists and so far they have failed miserably.


I disagree with that. For one thing, I don't see any theists trying to prove the existence of God. The obligation of theists to prove the existence of God is something that's in your mind. You have the choice to believe or not and you choose not to. I don't judge you for your beliefs and if I ever inferred that you are stupid or ignorant for them please accept my apology.

Summerlander wrote: They are the ones who have missionaires who speak about "salvation" like the rest of us are ignorant and doomed if we don't convert. Moreover, they want their faiths taught at schools. By exposing our children to their doctrine they can hinder their freedom to think for themselves.


Yes I agree that this is wrong because they are forcing their beliefs on others. I am very opposed to any form of fundamentalist dogma especially if it's used to control others, whether it comes from religous people or atheists. However, history has proven that the religious zealots are more dangerous. Don't lump all people who believe in God together.

Summerlander wrote: Nobody is bullying you, that's just how you perceive it (and I feel sorry for you if you are that sensitive) because you don't like the facts I've stated.


Right, everyone who disagrees with you just doesn't like the facts. That makes sense. The bullying I'm refering to is the troll behaviour I see in a lot of your posts. Here's the definition from Wikipedia: In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Summerlander wrote: If you say you believe in God, it cannot be the same God of Christians or Muslims. Such God condemns people to hell and bribes others with hedonistic heavens dwelt by renaissance angels or pretty virgins.


You're right, it is not either of those Gods, that's for sure. The "God" I believe in (not a conventional God) is basically the entire consciousness of the universe, including our own.

Summerlander wrote:If people come here to express their opinions and want to engage in debate, why not? I see no harm in it.
Agreed. But keep in mind, opinions should not be constantly presented as facts. And they are not subject to anyone's approval. You can express them without having to debate. If you disagree, do so constructively and without insults and lecturing. Once a point is made it is not necessary to add constant repetition to the thread, we got it the first time.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus


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