What are your religious views?

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What are your religious views?

Deeply religious - I follow a strict religious code and trust my life to a higher authority
22
19%
Somewhat religious - I believe in a higher intelligence watching over us
38
32%
Agnostic - I'm on the fence; you really can't say either way at this time
29
25%
Atheist - I don't believe there is a higher intelligence watching over us
29
25%
 
Total votes: 118

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Summerlander
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 02 Feb 2013 04:46

First of all, you have a tendency to jump to conclusions. When SarahDank posted that debate with Christopher Hitchens in it (if you haven't checked it please do so and you will see how the religious try to prove the existence of God), and I commented saying that it seemed like it was going to be a great debate, you immediately assumed I was referring to this thread.

Secondly, how can I take you at face value when, apart from being misinformed, you seem to misunderstand what I'm asserting? Let me ask you this: Do you desperately want me to be wrong?

I am not passing my opinions off as facts. What I've mentioned just happens to be factual. And it is also a fact that history shows religion to be poisonous, dangerous and murderous... and continues to be. I also think slandering me with names such as "bully" and "troll" is uncalled for. I've seen more polite rebuttals. :shock:

You're right, it is not either of those Gods, that's for sure. The "God" I believe in (not a conventional God) is basically the entire consciousness of the universe, including our own.


Consciousness is not a God and did not create the universe. Consciousness happens to be a by-product of an evolving universe. The universe is not a conscious entity, or wholly conscious, it contains individuated structures that have the potential to be conscious and sometimes unconscious. We call these lifeforms.

do so constructively and without insults and lecturing.


But where's the insult and the lecturing (care to show me)? Pointing out where some have gone wrong? If we never did we'd be unable to teach or learn. Tell me where the insult and lecturing are so I can refrain from doing so again. So far, you've already had other parties point out to you that none are found. Enlighten us if we missed something.

I haven't called you a "bully" or a "troll" somewhere, have I? :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 02 Feb 2013 07:26

Summerlander wrote:First of all, you have a tendency to jump to conclusions. When SarahDank posted that debate with Christopher Hitchens in it (if you haven't checked it please do so and you will see how the religious try to prove the existence of God), and I commented saying that it seemed like it was going to be a great debate, you immediately assumed I was referring to this thread.


Since you posted it on this thread, yes I did think it might have something to do with this thread and you have been debating all through this thread which is supposed to be about your views, but much of your posts are about why others views are wrong. 52 posts at this point. Here's one sample of many:

Summerlander wrote:Hi, Ty8200,

The Big Theory is supported by the discovery of cosmic background radiation. This is explained as radiation left over from an early stage in the development of the universe. There was definitely a big explosion which accounts for the local known universe. You must have missed the Big Bang theory discussion earlier.

Science is a method of observing and studying reality. Religion is not like that. It is a doctrine that people just accept without question. Science is all about questioning reality. Why is this? why is that?

God is a concept. Nothing more. You wouldn't have such concept if you had been taught, from an early stage in your life, that there is no creator and that everything is random. I believe the god concept stems from, and is a reflection of, our desire for power - to be on top of things - to be looked after, to feel safe etc. It is also the easiest way to explain things (which is not really explaining).

Think about this for a second: "God created the universe" ... pfft... the ultimate copout, if you ask me.

The word God is used to define the creator of everything, a supreme spiritual being who has power over nature and holds the highest moral ground. The "god" you speak of shouldn't be called "god" then, but something else. You still seem to allude to this mighty thing (whatever you want to call it) as though is is conscious and thinks and sees and hears everything! If He is not a person, does he somehow have a brain, eyes and ears to perceive everything? Where is your evidence of such a thing because so far, science has only been able to demonstrate cause and effect and that the universe in motion is most likely random or a deterministic one. Quantum theory even suggests a probabilistic framework at a fundamental level. If you have discovered something that nobody else has, and this can be proved, please do share!!

Why is it that God or intelligence behind what happens in nature is not scientifically mentioned? Because it is not evident, that's why! Not because science is the enemy. Not because it rejects god because the idea of it may sound absurd to some scientists (and I believe you are putting all your eggs in one basket there as you seem to make an attempt to tarnish the best and most productive method that we have)! The truth is that science cannot comment or give validity to that which is not evident in anyway!


At one point TY8200 makes this comment: Your first few sentences irk me the most. Almost trying to get under my skin, it seems to me.

No accident there! It looks many of your comments are specifically designed to do this and this is where I see some of the troll behaviour I mentioned (by the way I didn't call you a troll, I said your behaviour is troll-like) Here are some of the unnecessary comments which look insulting:

To me, God is as valid as Santa Claus.
What a fairytale! What bull!
Religion needs to go.
Someone normally makes a scientific discovery, they may doubt its veracity at first, and then, when they finally have no choice but to accept it, some of them reinterpret their outdated books to sort of keep up with the program. :lol:
I hope those of you who linger in faith see the light (the real "light") and become secularists.


By seeing the real "light" I guess that means they agree with you, right?

But what do any of these comments have to do with your views? Looks like they are designed to provoke an emotional response. Sound familiar? These are also bully tactics (Didn't call you a bully, just the tactics)

Summerlander wrote: Secondly, how can I take you at face value when, apart from being misinformed, you seem to misunderstand what I'm asserting? Let me ask you this: Do you desperately want me to be wrong?


This is a typical complaint from you when people disagree. They are either misinformed, taking you out of context, nit-picking your posts, etc. They just can never be right.

Summerlander wrote:I am not passing my opinions off as facts.


I believe this is what you think, but again, another opinion.


Summerlander wrote:Consciousness is not a God and did not create the universe. Consciousness happens to be a by-product of an evolving universe. The universe is not a conscious entity, or wholly conscious, it contains individuated structures that have the potential to be conscious and sometimes unconscious.


Is this another example of one of your "facts"? I'll just accept that's it's your opinion.

Summerlander wrote:But where's the insult and the lecturing (care to show me)?


I've pointed out a few of the insults (in my opinion) There are a lot more. And here's one of the lectures below. This is my opinion so please don't argue with me about why these are not insults or why this is not a lecture.


[quote="Summerlander"]If it were true that ectoplasm or some unknown substance (or something that we don't yet understand) could dissociate from the physical body, then that would be part of our growing scientific understanding about reality. If such existed and interacted with physical matter, then it would have been discovered by now (like dark matter - nobody has ever seen it but we can see what it does in space and we are close to finding it) and there are a number of ways in which it could have been discovered. So far, they managed to find one of the most elusive bosons in quantum physics which gives everything its mass and yet no trace of that which is purported by many religiously or spiritually inclined individuals to be the source of life and consciousness (or, in the versions, the root of all existence).

To add to that, there are very good reasons to think that consciousness arises from the brain in all its complexity and that consciousness exiting the body or even surviving death is simply not true. This is not based on hypothesis, it is based on scientific theory and observations (check the difference between the two if you are not familiar with this). The scientific community have drawn their inclination towards materialism from over a century and a half of neurology. If you damage areas of the brain, you will lose mental faculties. You can cease to recognise faces, forget your name, the names of animals and yet remember the names of certain objects, lose some memories, lose the power of speech, lose the concept of words, lose subjectivity or even lose consciousness indefinitely while you are still alive. Everything about your mind can be lost by damaging the brain. And yet, some people still think that when you damage the whole thing at death you can really exit the physical body with all your faculties intact, recognise deceased relatives and communicate with them with words, telepathy and whatnot!
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Summerlander
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 02 Feb 2013 22:03

I like the fact that you have reviewed my posts and took what I said into consideration even if you don't entirely agree with the content. I see that some of my posts are a bit 'in your face' so to speak and I will tone it down. Some of my past statements do indeed look like lectures and your rebuke appears to be justified on these grounds.

My intention was to inform people of what I discovered through my experience and study. I've looked at all sides of this argument and I just felt like stating what I find more appealing and what is more evident. I've reasoned that God is as plausible as a unicorn or a pair of ice skates on the surface of planet Pluto. A compelling piece of evidence is that biological truths are simply not compatible with a designer God.

I will concede that the way I've responded to some of the posts here might have been a little inappropriate. Thanks for politely getting my attention to my usual approach. I'll be more wary about sharing what I found and how I look at things from now on. :idea:

No hard feelings, eh? Apologies for my verbal diarrhoea everyone! :oops:
Last edited by Summerlander on 02 Feb 2013 22:11, edited 1 time in total.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 02 Feb 2013 22:05

Thanks to all, lets keep the debate going as it is an interesting one and gets deep into each of own beliefs of non-beliefs as the case may be

Peter
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Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 02 Feb 2013 22:05

Thanks to all, lets keep the debate going as it is an interesting one and gets deep into each of own beliefs of non-beliefs as the case may be

Peter
Moderator
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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SarahDank
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby SarahDank » 06 Feb 2013 15:15

I don't know how this even happened while I havent been checking this thread but wow.

This has not at all been a bloody debate. The fact you see it that way just showes that you are threatened by what is being said. As it all obviously is true.
Look, I have NOTHING and I mean NOTHING against Christians, Catholics, Muslims - whatever else. You believe what you have been brought up to believe / taken in over time.
And that's damn well fair enough.

What I see me and Summerlander discussing/telling people is that.. We're sorry but.. Your beliefs do not make sense. Not common sense. Not scientific sense.
If you believe there is such power out there, then you should think about aliens. (extra terrestrials)
Do they or do they not exist in YOUR world? YOUR beliefs? does your belief absolutely wipe out any kind of chance that there is other life forms in the whole..entire universe?

I may not be as technical as Summerlander as I am obviously not as well informed about scientific discoveries etc.. But what I do know is that religion was not always here. If it was here from the beginning of time.. and I mean.. the BEGINNING.. when it was all meant to of unfolded..Yeah that would make some sense of how people can believe such an.. impossible tale.

But your proof of Religion was Jesus. The man who you claim came from a lady who was a virgin.............................................................
Man that's just not possible.

If you find this offensive I do apologize, as I'm really not the rude kind of person. But I am being open about this whole thing - It's something that needs to be questioned. Seeing as how its something that the whole damn world is based off these days (besides money).

And it really shouldn't be. Humans know what is right from wrong. It's damn common sense. We don't need commandments - We don't need to believe there is something or someone watching us from above - through the suffering and the happiness.

We are on earth. In a solar system that is in a galaxy that is in a universe full of millions of other galaxy's.
Do you understand that?..
Like.. really?

You claim us all to be puppets. That is not right. We are just another race living in an amazing universe. Something bigger than any God or Creator you could think of. Or even make up.

You should watch the Link I posted. Christopher basically says everything as it is - based off actual research.

Again, I'm sorry if this comes across to harsh or anything like that.
Just reply to me with anything you have to say.

EDIT:

How can you say to us that.. religion is not used to allow humans to cope with the thought of death?

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R99
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby R99 » 06 Feb 2013 19:35

so guys, am just putting this thought in my way, there is a higher power, thats out of our reach. and the views about god or any religion, sometimes it keeps us in our good behavior. and about science, its the way of putting something in the way of our understandings. and science has its limit too. i hope u get what i tried to say.
I see the Truth now.

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Summerlander
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 08 Feb 2013 01:35

Actually, R99, that's a misconception. Morals don't come from religion. If you want a lesson in ethics, religion is the last source you should be looking at. You don't need to be religious to behave, and, if history has taught us anything, is that the opposite is quite true. Faith is the ultimate evil. It denies logical thinking and reasoning. If there was a devil, faith would be its masterpiece.

Faith makes people ignorant and compels them to embrace ignorance. Moreover, it insults them by telling them what to do and not to do as though people can't work that out for themselves.

The fact that you have feelings and can intuit that others have them too should incite empathy within you. The knowing that everyone you meet will lose everything - from their material possessions to their loved ones - and ultimately die should be good enough a reason for you to feel sympathetic towards them and to make their time worthwhile in the way that you treat them. It shouldn't be too hard to avoid upsetting them and if you do by accident let them know how genuinely sorry you are.

We can do all of this without religion. There is no place for faith in the world of today and things are only getting worse. Now we have fanatically pharisaic nations empowered with dangerous arsenal and they won't hesitate to use it whenever they get the chance to do so because they hold certain beliefs about the origins of our universe and how it works.

Science is a method of inquiry and doesn't hold on to dogmas. Scientists will be the first ones to say that they don't know when they genuinely don't know and will do everything they can in order to discover the truth. The faithful, on the other hand, have already given up on searching for answers as they have "faith" that what they have been told by the tenets of their religion is the unquestionable truth. To be faithful is to live in ignorance and feel proud.

To be pious is to believe in something that is no more feasible than fairies and unicorns and make the affirmation that it is true without proof. It's absolutely irrational.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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lucidinthe sky
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Location: Sacramento, California

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 08 Feb 2013 02:08

R99 wrote:so guys, am just putting this thought in my way, there is a higher power, thats out of our reach. and the views about god or any religion, sometimes it keeps us in our good behavior. and about science, its the way of putting something in the way of our understandings. and science has its limit too. i hope u get what i tried to say.


I definitely get what you mean and thanks for expressing your view.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Ryan
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ryan » 08 Feb 2013 05:10

R99 wrote:so guys, am just putting this thought in my way, there is a higher power, thats out of our reach. and the views about god or any religion, sometimes it keeps us in our good behavior. and about science, its the way of putting something in the way of our understandings. and science has its limit too. i hope u get what i tried to say.

Religion is a wonderful way to learn ethics and morals.
Take the bible for example... while I don't personally believe it's "the word of god"... it is full of really great stories that, when taken on their own, provide amazing lessons in how to spiritually grow.

When I say spiritually grow, I mean become a better person and more towards Love. :)

Now obviously, religion also has it's bad side... the zealots and fanatics, for example. However, you can't judge a religion based upon them, it's their choice for them to act the way they do.

Actually, you even see it in metaphysical circles... actually, if you look closely, you'll see it in this very thread. ;)
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