Dream you are Lucid Dreaming?

For general lucid chat - ask questions, share advice, set lucid dream challenges and explore the lucid realm together.
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Summerlander
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Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Dream you are Lucid Dreaming?

Postby Summerlander » 04 Feb 2013 17:15

Ryan wrote:To me, the very concept that most people refer to as a dream of a lucid dream simply can not exist... as you're either aware that you're dreaming or you're not aware that you're dreaming. It's a yes or a no answer... no grey area. So for me it's very straightforward.


I disagree. I believe you are undermining the abstract side of our minds. Moreover, there are many degrees of being lucid. The phase state of the mind is not stable, it can only be optimally maintained and prolonged with techniques. You are dismissing a whole spectrum of perception in your statement. The whole affair is very much a grey area.

I could give you the example of one of my past experiences. I began with partial lucidity but still believing that prior dream events had taken place in the real world. Eventually I developed full lucidity and realised that it had been a gradual development as opposed to the emergence of full consciousness in one go.

It is possible that some of your mental faculties function in some lucid dreams but not others. In a similar vein, it is feasible that one can dream of lucid dreaming but still not possess that waking consciousness that marks the Gamma frequency and defines paradoxical sleep. In such cases, the subconscious is merely playing out what the individual was exposed to while awake. It is merely a theme.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Ryan
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Dream you are Lucid Dreaming?

Postby Ryan » 06 Feb 2013 03:50

Summerlander wrote:I disagree.

That's fine. I'm not asking you to agree with me.

I share with everyone what my direct experiences have taught me.

We can, and will, forever agree to disagree.
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Summerlander
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Re: Dream you are Lucid Dreaming?

Postby Summerlander » 08 Feb 2013 02:13

Imagine that a man is dreaming and he suddenly regards his environment as being that of a lucid dream but, within that same context, the dream characters that represent his family are regarded as being the real deal and he turns around to one of them and says: "look sis, I'm in a lucid dream right now! You can do this too if you want to!" Subsequently, he attempts to help a very eager sister to lucid dream by getting her to lie down first and relax.

Now, the environment is deemed to be the physical world and the man considers himself to be awake in it as he gets his sister to relax and instructs her to establish a firm intention to have a lucid dream. All the while he has been unaware that this sister of his is a dream element. When he finally wakes up in the REAL real world, the dream experience he just had did not feel lucid at all, it felt vague, did not leave an impression and he immediately remembers the discrepancies in his reasoning during the dream which bear all the hallmarks of non-lucidity.

Was this dreamer lucid? Who thinks he was and who thinks he wasn't? Or how lucid/non-lucid was he? I'm interested to see what you guys think.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Ryan
Posts: 548
Joined: 07 Aug 2011 19:47
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Dream you are Lucid Dreaming?

Postby Ryan » 09 Feb 2013 21:12

Summerlander wrote:Imagine that a man is dreaming and he suddenly regards his environment as being that of a lucid dream but, within that same context, the dream characters that represent his family are regarded as being the real deal and he turns around to one of them and says: "look sis, I'm in a lucid dream right now! You can do this too if you want to!" Subsequently, he attempts to help a very eager sister to lucid dream by getting her to lie down first and relax.

Now, the environment is deemed to be the physical world and the man considers himself to be awake in it as he gets his sister to relax and instructs her to establish a firm intention to have a lucid dream. All the while he has been unaware that this sister of his is a dream element. When he finally wakes up in the REAL real world, the dream experience he just had did not feel lucid at all, it felt vague, did not leave an impression and he immediately remembers the discrepancies in his reasoning during the dream which bear all the hallmarks of non-lucidity.

Was this dreamer lucid? Who thinks he was and who thinks he wasn't? Or how lucid/non-lucid was he? I'm interested to see what you guys think.

I'm really sorry Summerlander, but your opinions are beyond meaningless to me and I refuse to get sucked into a discussion with you which will only end negatively.

For the most part, I'll be ignoring your posts as has been suggested to me. Please, in the future, do not stalk my posts and do not harass me as you've been doing.

Please have a nice day though.
For more information, please visit my website
http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/
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Summerlander
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Re: Dream you are Lucid Dreaming?

Postby Summerlander » 10 Feb 2013 02:19

:shock: :!:

Oh dear... :roll:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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