Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Tell us about your first lucid dream - and your latest. We want all the juicy details. Also share results of dream challenge experiments.
Birdman
Posts: 9
Joined: 03 Dec 2012 13:52

Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby Birdman » 07 Feb 2013 06:18

This is related to

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3231

but it was getting kinda flamy in there so i'd rather have my own topic, anyways....

This morning i had a lucid dream and from it a lot of questions

07. February 2013 (Thursday Morning) 4th lucid dream ???
I am in the front of the building where i used to live with my childhood friends, in front of the window of one of my neighbors, out of nowhere i think about lucid dreaming and realize i am dreaming, the world gets a bit whoozy so i crouch down and focus so i stabilize it, i take some time observing the world, looking at my body, soaking it all in, picking up some pebbles off the ground, then look around me again, even though the world is pretty clear i say clarity now and try to focus it even more, but it stays the same, then i get up. In front of the neighbouring building there is an old man sitting on the front steps (he’s one of my customers where i work) so i go over to him and pinch his cheeks and he smiles then he gets up and starts tagging along and starts to get annoying, now in the dream even though lucid i was convinced that he was some sort of virus that i copyed from some sort of racing game(maybe linked to the dream i was having before?) and now he invaded my dream, i check my hand and it's all bend and stuff then i fly up trying to get rid of him but he just flies with me having a smug smile that he has so much power, i fly down and focus to make him go away thinking „dissapear!” but he’s still there then turns into a child kinda of in a mocking manner, so after all of this i go back in front of the initial building where i became lucid and start thinking how much time do i still have left cause my alarm might go off and wake me up anytime, the world gets woozy again as i realize i am waking up so i focus and lay down and manage to stabilize it so i just hang around there for a bit then … i wake up ... 6:45am, 95 min before my alarm wakes me.


1. Why was not aware that the old man DC wasn't really real and wasn't a virus in my dream
2. How can you be fully aware of the fact you're dreaming, and of reality and still kind of be in the mindset of your dream character ?
3. Was it really the mindset of my character or was he really a virus, and by that i don't mean an actual virus, i mean is he a part of my subconscious that represents all my fears and anxieties and that's what made him so strong in my dream so when i became lucid he sort of rose against me ?
and lastly
4. Are we really lucid dreaming if our minds can be polluted so easily by the dream narration? if it was dream narration in the first place.
5. Was this a lucid dream ?

Intrepid
Posts: 84
Joined: 29 Jun 2011 13:43
Location: Bradenton, FL USA

Re: Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby Intrepid » 07 Feb 2013 15:45

Hopefully this helps...

You seem to be confusing generic lucidity with perfect clarity and control. They're not one in the same at all. I often have lucid dreams in which a "story" is taking place and I am unable to control the pace or settings and characters within it, though I am fully aware that I am dreaming. Simply dreaming about being lucid and never achieving lucidity is common with me as well. Being 100% lucid and in complete control with the canvas of your mind at your command takes a lot of practice. Your level of consciousness within a dream can and will vary, and without experience and practice, it's blind luck that you'll get that dream in which you suddenly become completely aware and your mind is instantly free of all boundaries and limitations. It's often the occurence that lucidity causes such excitement that we "forget" what we're capable of in the dream, or simply forget to try certain things such as wiping the landscape, teleporting, flying, dreams within dreams, etc. The fact that you doubt if we are really lucid is a good indication that you may not have had your "lucid breakthrough moment" yet :)
When you do, there won't be any doubt in your mind.

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Birdman
Posts: 9
Joined: 03 Dec 2012 13:52

Re: Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby Birdman » 07 Feb 2013 17:05

Well i'm not really questioning my level of awareness in it as much as i am questioning all lucid dreams in general, even if at full lucidity you can raze the landscape and create anything you want, that could be scripted too, your brain tricking you that you can actually control everything.

Secondly i know my focus is way off, even in real life, and these LDs are all by chance and since i can't focus in real life i can't do full focus in LD's as well.

Intrepid
Posts: 84
Joined: 29 Jun 2011 13:43
Location: Bradenton, FL USA

Re: Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby Intrepid » 07 Feb 2013 17:54

Dr Steven LaBerge proved in controlled tests that lucid dreaming is indeed a different state of consciousness. Through pre-determined eye movements, they verified that a test subject's eye movements during lucid dreaming are mirrored in waking life beneath the eyelids. The REM dreamer mask even offers a two-way communication feature that allows the dreamer to turn off LED queues by deliberate eye movements in the dream that will translate into readable movements in real life by the mask's motion sensors. It's really incredible stuff.

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Birdman
Posts: 9
Joined: 03 Dec 2012 13:52

Re: Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby Birdman » 07 Feb 2013 18:48

Ok that is proof that we can have a different state of consciousness while dreaming, but it's still doesn't prove that our brain didn't script the whole thing.

Intrepid
Posts: 84
Joined: 29 Jun 2011 13:43
Location: Bradenton, FL USA

Re: Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby Intrepid » 07 Feb 2013 20:06

If someone can, at will, produce a requested action from within the dream state and be aware of their intention and the purpose of the experiment, I wouldn't call that a scripted event. However, your criteria for what we label as a regular dream blending with simply a scripted event that gives the illusion of lucidity...that creates implications that are far more profound than just understanding awareness or a dream state. You might as well ask how we know daily life isn't a dream. Even if its the illusion of control, if it feels like control and plays out as such...I suppose it doesn't really matter, right?

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Birdman
Posts: 9
Joined: 03 Dec 2012 13:52

Re: Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby Birdman » 07 Feb 2013 20:59

Yes this type of question can ramify into questioning the actual reality itself and it's true that if our brain is fooled with 100% accuracy it doesn't really matter if lucid dreaming is real or not, cause we believe it and therefore it's real even though it could not be.

I'm going to have to run some in dream experiments when i'm able to put my life into focus a bit and test a few theories...

Ericsan
Posts: 3
Joined: 13 Feb 2013 23:06

Re: Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby Ericsan » 13 Feb 2013 23:10

I am curious about this one too.

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taniaaust1
Posts: 2990
Joined: 07 Feb 2013 15:32
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby taniaaust1 » 14 Feb 2013 08:38

Birdman wrote:1. Why was not aware that the old man DC wasn't really real and wasn't a virus in my dream


You didnt realise as thou you had awareness that you were dreaming.. you still didnt have your full waking consciousness coming in (so still were partly in your dream mind). You just werent as aware in your dream as you thought you were so not aware that you were still. I personally call dreams like that "semi lucid". (

2. How can you be fully aware of the fact you're dreaming, and of reality and still kind of be in the mindset of your dream character ?


see my answer to question 1.

3. Was it really the mindset of my character or was he really a virus, and by that i don't mean an actual virus, i mean is he a part of my subconscious that represents all my fears and anxieties and that's what made him so strong in my dream so when i became lucid he sort of rose against me ?
and lastly


The other character in your dream.. I'd think was a part of yourself, rising against yourself. One could say that he could of actually been symbolising the lack of control you had in your dream (not being there with as much clarity as you thought you was).

4. Are we really lucid dreaming if our minds can be polluted so easily by the dream narration? if it was dream narration in the first place.
5. Was this a lucid dream ?


A lucid dream is one in which someone is lucid in it. For many that means just having awareness that you are dreaming during the dream like you were. There are thou many different levels of being lucid. You were but also werent. One could say that you've reached the first level to becoming fully lucid.

If someone is fully aware in their dream.. they can think as they do in RL and they arent mislead by the dream happenstances or the characters in them. (that can get rather boring thou if one is in control of every aspect of the dream.. so I personally like some surprises thou I usually manage to keep clear waking thoughts in my LDs with keeping all my normal waking life responses due to KNOWING at all times its a dream).

With more practice you may be able to have your full waking awareness in your dreams (just keep questioning things in your dreams to try to bring in your normal waking mind more.. and practice, practice, practice). Using your waking brain more awarely in a LD is a skill many need some experience to master.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

Dreamstooreal
Posts: 2
Joined: 19 Feb 2013 09:13

Re: Are we really lucid dreaming ?

Postby Dreamstooreal » 19 Feb 2013 09:32

Intrepid wrote:If someone can, at will, produce a requested action from within the dream state and be aware of their intention and the purpose of the experiment, I wouldn't call that a scripted event. However, your criteria for what we label as a regular dream blending with simply a scripted event that gives the illusion of lucidity...that creates implications that are far more profound than just understanding awareness or a dream state. You might as well ask how we know daily life isn't a dream. Even if its the illusion of control, if it feels like control and plays out as such...I suppose it doesn't really matter, right?

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image


The last part about the illusion of control is what I thought about this morning. Our daily lives really are quite out of our control, or no more in control than our dreams really. People come in and change things, the unexpected happens, circumstances change drastically, quickly, without any effort from us. Isn't this exactly what happens in lucid dreams. Obviously some dreams are completely non-sensical but the lucid ones are somewhat controlled. Is this control any more than we have in every day life? I can plan my day but anything could happen to completely change it. Maybe we're at the same level of circumstantial mercy as our dreams. Which would make them equally as real as being awake wouldn't it?


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