Technique failure - counting backwards

Discuss lucid dreaming techniques including dream recall, MILD, WILD, meditation and other ways of attaining lucidity in dreams.
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taniaaust1
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Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby taniaaust1 » 16 Feb 2013 05:10

I think we learn just as much by what doesnt work for us as what does work for us... even our failures are learning experiences so worth sharing too.

Cause Im wanting to enter WILDs at a deeper level then I do now, Im currently experimenting with different techniques to use before I try to go into the WILD (and hopefully enter it in a deeper state) along with also experiementing with different things to maintain LDs in very light WILD state. So I printed off Rebeccas list of 52 ways to have LDs and thought I'd try incorporating some different methods to what Ive previously used.

This morning I woke up in a near perfect state to have a LD (would of had an extremely high success rate for it had I used the technique Ive been using) but decided instead to try 31. "count backwards from 100 as you fall asleep. "100..Im dreaming..99..Im dreaming.. " etc I must admit the "Strange things may happen" part had me intregred. :ugeek:

So I started counted backwards using that method. It actually took me probably an hour to reach 0 from 100 (well it seemed like it :shock: ), as I kept on loosing my count so kept having to start counting from the point I last remembered. I had no images come in at all and only experienced a lot of frustration as I kept loosing the count and was determined to do this exercise properly. By the time I finished the exercise.. instead of feeling relaxed.. I felt like I'd had a very hard day at the office and was very stressed.

ah well.. lesson learnt "this" exercise isnt for "me" and I think I could say that it probably wont work well for others who have bad concentration/focus issues either. (I have terrible concentration issues which cant be fixed due to health reasons). I ended up having to do meditation to calm myself down from that counting backwards exercise.
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Ryan
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Re: Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby Ryan » 16 Feb 2013 06:35

May I ask what you mean by entering a WILD in a deeper level?
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taniaaust1
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Re: Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby taniaaust1 » 16 Feb 2013 16:42

Ryan wrote:May I ask what you mean by entering a WILD in a deeper level?


Im entering them way too lightly.. eg while still feeling my physical body on the bed which is rather distracting to the LD and usually dont give me enough time to stabilize he LD so I fall out of the LDs a lot if Ive gone in by WILD. Cause im entering the LD too lightly too.. it often means that some of my senses are still in my physical body, while others are in the LD (due to being in both places at once), that also makes it harder to stabilize the LD without a fall out eg cant use looking at my hands to stabilize often as half the time I cant see cause its not stabilized enough to have my dream sight there, thou Im in the dream. Also if I open my eyes while Im not stabilized enough into the dream.. I have a good chance of my physical eyes opening and that then pulling me straight out.. same goes if Im moving small body parts.. I got to be very careful not to move physical body with little movement in which I may accidently move my physical. Hence Ive been using big movements to try to stabilize dreams but that isnt working..

This issue makes it so the only thing Ive got to try to stabilize and deeper the dream much of the time is my own body movement or the movement of other things around me. Its rather challenging. So Im figuring that if I enter the LD when Im deeper in the dream state.. maybe then I wont have the current issue I have as I'll be more grounded into the dream? (this is only a theory I have currently). Ive probably fallen out my last 7-9 LDs, which is terribly disappointmenting. I havent had a decent LD due to this for about 3 weeks. (I call a decent LD one in which I have time to do 2-4 of my dream challenges.. the current situation isnt even enabling me to do 1 of my challenges. Im spending the whole LD trying to stabilize.. only to then drop out).

In these light LD states.. In the past 2 weeks Ive tried to hold myself in the dream and deepen them by following things
1. getting up and walking (tried that in two different LDs, but dropped out on doing that).
2. Getting one of the DCs (a baby) and jigging it hard on my lap to try to keep me in dream (that was working to stabilize the LD but then my visual come in and the baby was so very ugly it shocked me out of dream.
3. A slow turn spin (as I didnt want to loose the surrounding I was in as I needed to see to help hold me in the light LD.. but still dropped out seconds later).
4. Yelling at one of the DCs.. (that thou didnt seem to deepen the LD.. maybe it would of helped more had the DC then not ignored me)
5. cant think of what else.. Ive had at least another 3 LDs Ive dropped out of past 10 days or so... ahh in one of the ones I did have my sight in, I looked at my hand but it didnt help me to stabilize (that used to work for me).

Its soo so frustrating. I need to figure out the best thing for me to do to stabilize my WILDs.
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Ryan
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Re: Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby Ryan » 16 Feb 2013 17:30

Ok, I get ya. That's not a result of HOW you project... it's a result of, as you suggest, not strengthening and stabilizing your projection after you project. There's very little you can do during the WILD attempt to improve this. Improving has to come WHILE you're already projected.

Let me post an article I wrote for my website on that subject:

This is one of many techniques which I’m aware of, and actually use, in order to stabilize my projections and strengthen my awareness to keep it within the reality frame I’m experiencing.

First, think about what we do to “help” others stay awake in this reality. We shake them… we yell at them to stay awake… we use chemicals like smelling salts in order to bring their awareness “HERE”. What is this doing? It’s our attempt at focusing their attention within this physical reality. Now think about how YOU keep yourself physically awake! We listen to loud music… we drink a stimulant (coffee)… we even slap ourselves… all of which brings our attention more towards this physical reality and more away from the non-physical reality.

How we do certain things in this physical reality can provide to us hints as to how to stabilize and strengthen our connection to the non-physical.

To stabilize and strengthen your non-physical experience you have to attempt to bring as much of your awareness into the environment as you can. Just as the person shaking you and yelling at you (sense of touch and hearing) in order to bring your awareness into this physical reality, we can use the same “technique” to keep our awareness within the non-physical.

What I mean by this is use your 5 senses to REALLY explore your environment. Look at things in minute detail… touch things…. hear the sounds… smell the smells… even taste things! Do this as intensely and with as much focus as you can. This will bring your awareness into the reality you’re experiencing and will LOCK it there. This has become my main method as of late and I’ve been experimenting with it over the last few non-physical experiences I’ve had. You can read them by clicking on my experiences at the top (or right side) of my website. I’ve had lucid/astral experiences which have gone on for 30 – 60 minutes doing this.

This is my explanation for it…
What generally happens when we begin to wake up from an experience like this is that the projector will begin to feel their physical body and they’ll start to pickup on the sensory input from that physical body. What I explain above causes you to ignore those physical senses and further heightens your non-physical senses which are already active in that reality. Eventually, and if you do it intensely with enough focus, this begins cutting off the physical senses altogether and leaves you experiencing just your non-physical senses and keeps you nice and stable in the non-physical reality.

http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/how-to-stabilize-and-strengthen-your-projection-experiences/
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taniaaust1
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Re: Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby taniaaust1 » 17 Feb 2013 10:05

Thanks Ryan :D . That's a very good article on it you've wrote. I compltely agree that we need to engage our senses as much as possible to keep us there and that is exactly what Ive been trying to do (but still failing).

What i dont understand is why I have no trouble stabilising if Im doing a LDing from a dream rather then a WILD.. I can then alter how deep I are into it at will and if I feel myself starting to drop out.. I can bring myself back in. (that's what has made me wonder if my issues are something to do with the way Im entering the LD as I only get this issue when I use WILD).


You have by your article given me some extra great ideas of things I didnt think of before.. eg pain. Im think slapping myself in the face would probably wake me up but maybe I could use pain to keep myself there... pull my own hair or something like that. I hadnt thought to try pain before. Maybe for more effect I could wrap my hair around something in the dream and pull back hard on it.

Ive been thinking more too about what I should of done differently with the last LD I dropped out from. In that one I now think it was a mistake for me to try to move my LD body to try to stay in the dream.. rather then instead focusing on what was there. Instead of trying to hold my self there via getting up and walking which was what I did.. I should of reached out.. opened the cupboard and starting pulling things out from it or something like that.

Maybe some yelling while throwing things from the dream cupboard may of helped??? (thou maybe that would of woke my physical body up more?? cause when I emotionally reaction it can pull me out). Its like I need to also keep my physical body very calm.. to not pull me out if Im not well grounded in the LD.

I think Im going to have to do a lot of experimenting to find out what exactly works the strongest for me. Im needing a very strong technique.

........

After saying on this forum yesterday that i hardly ever get any hypnogogic hallucinations.. irronically i did this morning when I woke up and made a semi serious LD attempt. I also found that I could actually visualize for a change when Im that state (I thou have to be in that state to do it, I could only do it AFTER the images started occurring). Im very surprised to find that Im actually capable of visualisation. Im was like "wow, this is what it is like to visualize". :D
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Ryan
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Re: Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby Ryan » 18 Feb 2013 05:39

Pain in a non-physical experience... hmmm.
I'm wondering if you did something like slap yourself, would you feel any pain? hehe

That'd be something to test. :)

As for an entry via a WILD versus becoming lucid from a dream... the only difference is that entering via a WILD, you're closer to having an astral awareness as you're more aware, very close to what you have right now while awake. It's a smooth transition of consciousness from "here" to "there".

While becoming aware from a dream, you're usually stuck with a lucid awareness instead, which you then need to spend some time increasing to an astral awareness before you can begin to do whatever it is you want to do.

From my experience, it's just a level of awareness difference between the two.
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taniaaust1
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Re: Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby taniaaust1 » 20 Feb 2013 01:55

Ryan wrote:While becoming aware from a dream, you're usually stuck with a lucid awareness instead, which you then need to spend some time increasing to an astral awareness before you can begin to do whatever it is you want to do.

From my experience, it's just a level of awareness difference between the two.


umm except when I gain lucidity while in a dream it often like hits me suddenly and hard and I do often (not always thou) have my full waking mind there the moment I actually became aware that Im dreaming. I usually get on with what I'd planned to do while lucid right away (which is the opposite in what is happening to me with WILDs as Im just then working on stabilizing instead of able to immeditately go about what I'd planned for my next LD). My level of conscious awareness between the two types of LDs arent really varying, there is another factor coming into play.
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taniaaust1
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Re: Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby taniaaust1 » 20 Feb 2013 01:59

Ryan wrote:Pain in a non-physical experience... hmmm.
I'm wondering if you did something like slap yourself, would you feel any pain? hehe

That'd be something to test. :)


Slap yourself HARD!! :lol: You probably wont feel it if you arent expecting too. I really need to get my normal waking mind out of the way more when Im LDing. My automatic response if something is about to hit me is to think that its gonna hurt.
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Ryan
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Re: Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby Ryan » 20 Feb 2013 05:11

taniaaust1 wrote:umm except when I gain lucidity while in a dream it often like hits me suddenly and hard and I do often (not always thou) have my full waking mind there the moment I actually became aware that Im dreaming. I usually get on with what I'd planned to do while lucid right away (which is the opposite in what is happening to me with WILDs as Im just then working on stabilizing instead of able to immeditately go about what I'd planned for my next LD). My level of conscious awareness between the two types of LDs arent really varying, there is another factor coming into play.

If you're having what you describe as your "full waking mind" while non-physical, then in most of your experiences you have what I would call a "Non-physical Astral Awareness Experience"... or as most people call them, a full astral projection.

taniaaust1 wrote:Slap yourself HARD!! :lol: You probably wont feel it if you arent expecting too. I really need to get my normal waking mind out of the way more when Im LDing. My automatic response if something is about to hit me is to think that its gonna hurt.

I always try to bring more of my normal waking mind into my projections. The more waking awareness you can bring in, the closer to that "holy grail" of projections you become. The "holy grail" (in my opinion, at least) being the Non-physical Astral Awareness Experience... having complete waking awareness while non-physical.
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taniaaust1
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Re: Technique failure - counting backwards

Postby taniaaust1 » 20 Feb 2013 10:22

I did OBEs for several years in the past. Used to have a couple of OBES per week or more. Ive only had a couple of OBES in the past few months.. Im currently more interested in LDs as Im more connected to my subconciousness during LDs and Im currently exploring my subconciousness. (I my interest switches back and forth between OBEs and LDs and nothing at all.. I like go thou fads of doing this stuff).

I actually can usually distingish between my LD and my OBES (on rare occassions I may be confused on which I had) even thou they both can have the same amount of waking consciousness in them as I have in RL (that's why Ive been so screwed up at times when Ive been actually physically awake but thought i was dreaming still and I wasnt).

Waking consciousness often is no difference between the 3 thou I dont see LDs and OBEs as being the same (LDs are created via my subconcious mind.. my OBES are not and are very real ... I can interact with this physical reality with them). I dont believe they can be told apart by how much waking conciousness one has in them at all as that can function separate to the waking mind and just cause the waking mind is more present.. doesnt necessarily mean the subconscious mind is turned off.

A very aware spiritually developed person will be aware of the subconciousness during even waking life.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself


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