What are your religious views?

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What are your religious views?

Deeply religious - I follow a strict religious code and trust my life to a higher authority
22
19%
Somewhat religious - I believe in a higher intelligence watching over us
38
32%
Agnostic - I'm on the fence; you really can't say either way at this time
29
25%
Atheist - I don't believe there is a higher intelligence watching over us
29
25%
 
Total votes: 118

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 21 Feb 2013 23:02

I really don't see karma as punishment, no more than jumping out of the 20th floor window. If you jump out of the window, you are not being punished when you hit the ground. This is just a natural consequence of breaking a law called gravity. It's more action/consequence.

If you look at how someone like Hitler lived, I can only imagine the self-created hell he is probably experiencing. This is not punishment, but for learning. There is a way out of these states for anyone who is in one, it's their choice. I would imagine that the deeper the hole you dig for yourself, the harder it is to get out. Everything you do to others, in essence you do to yourself. If you built your life around causing misery for others you will create that reality for yourself too. There is no escape from the reality you create for yourself. Then as they say "you made your bed, now lie in it" There's always a way out of course, but for many it will be difficult. I think the Christian version of hell may be easy compared to what some will have to go through. Those who thought they could get away with inflicting suffering on others, torturing people or other acts of brutality will learn the hard way, unfortunately.

I agree with you about consciousness moving toward perfection, that's the goal and it is the general direction it's moving in. But not all actions/choices move it in the right direction and there must be consequences for those that do damage. This is serious business I think, and not taken lightly. But again, everything is always done in love and it's not punishment.

Alfred Montapert sums it up quite well: "Every person has free choice. Free to obey or disobey the Natural Laws. Your choice determines the consequences. Nobody ever did, or ever will, escape the consequences of his choices."
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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taniaaust1
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby taniaaust1 » 21 Feb 2013 23:21

Ryan wrote:
taniaaust1 wrote:In real life I have a disabled child (now adult)... what is super interesting to me about that is that she choose me as a parent.. and Im someone who was was responsible for her death in another life time, she was only a very young child when she died. We buried her in the garden. Maybe cause I didnt love and care for her properly that other life time.. I had a lot of making up to do?? She's here too to work throu her feelings (feelings which her soul carries..she's sooo angry at me), over what I did in that other life. There is a balance to be restored and healing to be done and if not sorted out this lifetime, we'll have to reincarnate together again for it to be sorted out. If she dont let go of her anger over that other life.. in our next lifetime, it is likely she may end up having to be my parent (to make it easier for her to let go and love me).

If she is so angry at you... then perhaps that's also part of the reason why she chose you again as her mother. Perhaps she needed to learn to Love unconditionally, regardless of what others have done to her in the past (life).


yeah.. I was obviously confusing as that is what I was saying and why I believe Im her mother.

I also hold guilt over it so maybe its also a blessing to have the opportunity to get over it?? (it doesnt seem to be.. looking at a child and knowing what you've done is a heavy thing to be responsible for a death even if only partly). I may not get over the guilt fully until she forgives me.

Forever Evolving while at the same time already evolved. That is how I see things.
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taniaaust1
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby taniaaust1 » 21 Feb 2013 23:49

Ryan wrote:It 's only when you look at this from a "physical" perspective, using our physical morality and ethics do we see a reason for the belief that "karma" exists. I've always viewed it as nothing more than a fear-based tactic to get you to act properly towards other beings, exactly like the Christian Hell...

As I usually say, this is my perspective... it's not right or wrong, it's just my personal truth.
At the least, it's some food for thought. :)


I think you are missing that Karma works both in positive and negative ways.. Karma doesnt always have seemingly negative results back towards the person who did the deed, it works equally both ways and can be a very positive thing too.

eg you give out love to many people and in return that energy comes back you. I think seeing it as a negative thing.. is only seeing half the story.

I think that many are put off of having the belief of Karma due to thinking its a punishment thing.. which it may not be a all, (thou it is in a way too as people often punish THEMSELVES over their own deeds eg feeling guilt over something one could also say was Karma even thou the person themselves are feeling that). It may only ever be about learning.

The consequences of Hilters actions would be that he would have a lot of angry souls at him :shock: . One could say that is karma. I just see that as natural flow.. you do something terrible to another individual and it unbalances the energies (in this case the energy unbalanced is "others"), which then have to seek a rebalance to try to come back into harmony again. He has to deal with all the energies caused as well as what was created (the emotions of others, will come back unless they are very evolved and can transmute/harmonise themselves without unbalance). Hitlers action is no different to burning yourself cause you werent thinking well at the time and then having to deal with the burn..but his situation will take far longer to heal. Any action good or bad has flow on effects and leads to other actions.. it would be very hard to believe that actions done and the actions followed after arent due to the first actions... everything is connected. Nothing works alone.

Any suffering he's put throu.. will be to bring more understanding to him at his lower levels. He also will have to deal with his own emotions about it when he views his acts at a higher level.

This is what I believe.

Interestingly the concept of Karma I think may be in all religions
eg The Christians
Galatians 6:7 - "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."
2 Corinthians 9:6 - "But this [I say], He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully."
Luke 6:38 - Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Even very non christian religions have karmic beliefs.. eg Wiccians have their threefold law.
Last edited by taniaaust1 on 22 Feb 2013 00:13, edited 1 time in total.
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 22 Feb 2013 00:08

taniaaust1 wrote:I think you are missing that Karma works both in positive and negative ways.. Karma doesnt always have seemingly negative results back towards the person who did the deed, it works equally both ways and can be a very positive thing too.


It would have to go in both directions, positive and negative. I have experienced both, and prefer the positive side :D

I look at it as either adding value or subtracting value and like you say, the energy is created, positive or negative and has to go somewhere. Throw a stone into the air and it will come down somewhere, it doesn't simply disappear.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Worldenterer1
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Worldenterer1 » 22 Feb 2013 00:26

I just had a few questions for you...

lucidinthe sky wrote:In general I think karma is correct mainly because it just makes sense that you have to pay for everything somehow, there's no free lunch as they say. You can't go through life cheating other people to get ahead and taking away things that you didn't earn yourself. Over the long run, it must balance out.


Umm, why not? There are so many people out there that are rich because of how they fed off of other people's misery. If you look into the Gilded Age of American history, you will find men like Rockerfeller and Carnegie, who were called "robber barons." They owned massive amounts of money and property. The people who worked in their factories were living in poverty and sickness. They were working outrageous hours for low pay, struggling to provide for their families. When workers would die, or become sick, they would simply be replaced. These robber barons probably died with their stomachs full, and in a warm comfortable bed. Consider reading the book The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.

lucidinthe sky wrote: We are all here to learn in this life. So for example, some people cause a lot of suffering for others and it makes sense that they need to learn why this is wrong for their spiritual evolution.


First of all, I'm just curious, who are you to say why we are here in this life? And also, why would human existence be based around an idea that we came up with at some point in our history? (spiritual evolution) There is a great chance that the idea of spiritual evolution has not been around as long as humans, and it is a fact that many people have lived their entire lives never having even heard of any religion.
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Jack Reacher
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Jack Reacher » 22 Feb 2013 03:05

taniaaust1 wrote:
Those born crippled.. usually has some karmic reason or a reason why they choose to come into this world like that, they are supposed to be like that, they have something to learn via it or something to teach another via it. (I dont believe people can manifest stuff well or in a good way if their karma isnt balanced right). I believe there are various spiritual laws which come into things and the law of manifestation doesnt necessarily over ride the others (but then if someone has bad karma they can change that too via their deeds).


Sounds like you are just making this up as you go, do you not see how sick that sounds? They are supposed to be crippled, or they chose to be born in an undeveloped 3rd world country where they are constantly in hunger and have to watch their parents get raped and tortured in random power struggles? Have you ever told someone in that position that they are supposed to be there? Try telling a handicapped childs parent he deserves it, I would love to see how that goes down.


With the karma thing.. I believe it runs across all our lives. When one looks at only one life it can look very unbalanced as you are only looking at a small part instead of the whole.

Thats not what I have been suggesting, I said when you look at the whole, it looks incredible unbalanced. If you pick out parts of life to fit your belief sure it fits just fine, just make it up as you go. But as a whole, the world is awefully unbalanced and is only going to get worse.

Maybe that woman was a serial rapist in the past in another life who dominated others in many bad ways with no understanding how it would affect those she did it too? so experiencing what it is like herself is a "lesson" in itself.. maybe karma is more about lessons then punishment. Maybe the children need to learn unconditional love..... the guy is their father doing the negative deed so maybe a lead into a deeper unconditional love for all.

Im going to go easy on you here because I have a feeling you are not sure of the real story I am referring to, if you did you wouldn't be saying stuff like that. Also by this logic, sometime in your future you could be kidnapped, locked away and raped daily for several years, completely powerless, because in some past life completely unknown to you, you did something wrong.

Maybe the souls ..the raper and the victim choose to play those roles to teach children unconditional love? who knows.. a lot of this stuff goes very deep... very hard to understand but I think its to do with learning things and also just simply cause we also have free will and hence bad stuff some times happens. Some dont have the 'strength" to resist tempation and I guess when their own judgement day comes.. they will look back and regret actions. Our souls are in duality to experience ...

Yeah its pretty deep and hard to understand when you make up a concept that doesnt fully make sense on its own and try and make it up to fit the facts. A lot of what you are saying just sounds like quotes from movies and books and has nothing to do with the reality of what happened, I see no way that the vicitim chose their role to teach their children a lesson, that is just sick.

born autistic probably soul choosen for whatever reason. I dont know what i think when one with diminished mental capicities goes and does something horrendous like this. I do thou also believe in negative entities out there.. and know that its possible for them to "take over" another. When this happens thou there is usuallly reasons for it too... someone attracted the energy to them in some way.. past life connection coming into play with the neg being, the person is already has the entity attached to their soul so its influencing them again..which it could of already done in more then one life. Quite possibly our souls have agreed to the take over for some reason. As a healer and the work Ive done in the past, I know entities can actually attach to a persons soul from another life and then come throu into this one (Im talking about the soul..the timeless part of a person)

Thats all very well believing in negative entities to fill the gaps in your little belief system, but going around saying you know its true is a bit of a leap dont you think? You have some kind of mental power that can sense evil entities while the rest of us stumble around like meer mortals?
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 22 Feb 2013 03:16

Worldenterer1 wrote: I just had a few questions for you...
Umm, why not? There are so many people out there that are rich because of how they fed off of other people's misery. If you look into the Gilded Age of American history, you will find men like Rockerfeller and Carnegie, who were called "robber barons." They owned massive amounts of money and property. The people who worked in their factories were living in poverty and sickness. They were working outrageous hours for low pay, struggling to provide for their families. When workers would die, or become sick, they would simply be replaced. These robber barons probably died with their stomachs full, and in a warm comfortable bed. Consider reading the book The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.


I am familiar with the industrial revolution history of the United States. And how much of their riches did they take to their graves? I hope they got more out thier life than just getting rich and screwing people over. Doesn't sound like a fulfilling life to me. Fortunately for me, I actually got to try that for a while, on a much smaller scale but ended up hating the person I had become. It was a great lesson for me and no longer have to feel that life is all about making a lot of money. Learned more about karma too.

Sure, there are a lot of injustices here in the world, much worse than those you described. But people who believe in a higher power are not obligated to explain why they are allowed in order to justify their beliefs. Humans make their own choices, that's the bottom line. Lack of interference with them does not imply agreement by a higher power. To me, it just shows how valuable our free will is that it is not interfered with.

Worldenterer1 wrote: First of all, I'm just curious, who are you to say why we are here in this life.


Not any more or less important than anyone else who says why we are here. My beliefs are no more or less valuable than anyone else's. Just trying to learn and understand what I'm doing here and expressing my opinions.

Worldenterer1 wrote: And also, why would human existence be based around an idea that we came up with at some point in our history? (spiritual evolution) There is a great chance that the idea of spiritual evolution has not been around as long as humans, and it is a fact that many people have lived their entire lives never having even heard of any religion


I consider religion and spiritual evolution to be separate things. I am not a religous person, but believe we are conscious, spiritual beings. I think consciousness was here before anything including humans.

I have a question for you. As far as I can see from what you've posted, you have no belief in higher power, spirituality, afterlife, etc. If that's true than why are you participating in a discussion in which you have no belief? To me, there wouldn't be anything to say other than "I don't believe in any of this." That's fine of course, but there isn't much to elaborate on. Just curious, maybe you can help me understand.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Worldenterer1
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Worldenterer1 » 22 Feb 2013 04:07

lucidinthe sky wrote:But people who believe in a higher power are not obligated to explain why they are allowed in order to justify their beliefs.

You may not be obligated to, but why shouldn't you tell people why you believe in what you do?

lucidinthe sky wrote:I have a question for you. As far as I can see from what you've posted, you have no belief in higher power, spirituality, afterlife, etc. If that's true than why are you participating in a discussion in which you have no belief? To me, there wouldn't be anything to say other than "I don't believe in any of this." That's fine of course, but there isn't much to elaborate on. Just curious, maybe you can help me understand.


You are right. I am very convinced that there is no higher power, spirit stuff, or afterlife. I participate because I am a much happier person since I left those beliefs behind. I hope to help others who may want this same happiness but not be able to achieve it on their own. I also am curious to see why people believe what they do. Sure to you, there might be no more than saying "I don't believe in any of this." But for me, it's much more than that. I like to know what people think and why. I like to share and compare ideas. I feel that being able to understand other people's ideas is a very important thing. :)
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Jack Reacher
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Jack Reacher » 22 Feb 2013 04:13

EDIT: This is a reply to lucids above post, not worlds.

Because religion and spirituality do not own the domain of this type of discussion. There are still intelligent things to be discussed like ethics and such, and people like me who share his point of view would like to understand why it is you believe what you believe.

Yes you may not like being filthy rich, but those who died rich and never paid for it, probably enjoyed themselves. According to this karmic system, someone else will have to pay for their crimes. To me that just doesn't make intuitive sense.
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 22 Feb 2013 05:28

Jack Reacher wrote: EDIT: This is a reply to lucids above post, not worlds.

Because religion and spirituality do not own the domain of this type of discussion. There are still intelligent things to be discussed like ethics and such, and people like me who share his point of view would like to understand why it is you believe what you believe.


Sure, nobody owns the discussion. We should all share our opinions and participate in the discussion, respectfully. I'm not impressed with people who use attacks, insults and put people on the defensive in order to "understand" why people believe what they believe. That doesn't seem like the best way to understand anything. And by the way, no one here is entitled to a convincing argument for why people think what they think. Just want to make that completely clear.

Jack Reacher wrote:According to this karmic system, someone else will have to pay for their crime


That's not my understanding of karma. As far as I know, the person pays their own way, just like good old capitalism. According to karma, people either pay now or in another life. Personally, I'm trying to stay paid up or even have a slight positive balance. I figure it can't hurt. Spending your life screwing people over just seems like a risky strategy to me.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus


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