What are your religious views?

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.

What are your religious views?

Deeply religious - I follow a strict religious code and trust my life to a higher authority
22
19%
Somewhat religious - I believe in a higher intelligence watching over us
38
32%
Agnostic - I'm on the fence; you really can't say either way at this time
29
25%
Atheist - I don't believe there is a higher intelligence watching over us
29
25%
 
Total votes: 118

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Worldenterer1
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Worldenterer1 » 26 Mar 2013 01:36

Peter wrote: There will be some changes and those affected will know soon enough


:?
Lucid Dream Count: 10
Normal Dream Count: 100+
Goal for next LD: Think with portals.

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Ryan
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ryan » 26 Mar 2013 03:28

Peter wrote:
To Peter...
If you want my honest opinion, this thread should probably be locked.


LOL - I never do anything the easy way.

There will be some changes and those affected will know soon enough

Touche, my friend. :)
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taniaaust1
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby taniaaust1 » 26 Mar 2013 08:40

Summerlander wrote:You guys need to check out exactly how science works. There is no conspiracy as you seem to think that scientists will fake results to fit their theories. Science is about, theorising, predicting and testing with experimentation. Those who fake it get found out by competing bodies. It rules out the whole conspiracy theory and scientific dogma nonsense.


Biased in science has been found in MANY studies, obviously you havent read these.

"Researcher allegiance in psychotherapy outcome research: An overview of reviews


•Thomas Mundera, b, , ,
•Oliver Brütscha,
•Rainer Leonhartc,
•Heike Gergera,
•Jürgen Bartha
•a Institute of Social and Preventive Medicine, University of Bern, Switzerland
•b Institute of Psychology, University of Kassel, Germany
•c Institute of Psychology, University of Freiburg, Germany

Abstract

Researcher allegiance (RA) is widely discussed as a risk of bias in psychotherapy outcome research. The relevance attached to RA bias is related to meta-analyses demonstrating an association of RA with treatment effects. However, recent meta-analyses have yielded mixed results. To provide more clarity on the magnitude and robustness of the RA-outcome association this article reports on a meta-meta-analysis summarizing all available meta-analytic estimates of the RA-outcome association. Random-effects methods were used. Primary study overlap was controlled. Thirty meta-analyses were included."

The result of that study was (I've changed some things written to capitals)

"The mean RA-outcome association was r = .262 (p = .002, I2 = 28.98%), corresponding to a MODERATE EFFECT SIZE. The RA-outcome association was robust across several moderating variables including characteristics of treatment, population, and the type of RA assessment. Allegiance towards the RA bias hypothesis moderated the RA-outcome association. THE FINDINGS OF THIS META-META-ANALYSIS SUGGEST THAT THE RA-OUTCOME ASSOCIATION IS SUBSTANTIAL AND ROBUST."
......................

There are lots of these studies which show researcher biased impacting on science.. here's another one

"Is the allegiance effect an epiphenomenon of true efficacy differences between treatments? a meta-analysis.

Munder T, Flückiger C, Gerger H, Wampold BE, Barth J.
Source

Institute of Social and Preventive Medicine, University of Bern, Switzerland. tmunder@ispm.unibe.ch
Abstract

Many meta-analyses of comparative outcome studies found a substantial association of researcher allegiance (RA) and relative treatment effects. Therefore, RA is regarded as a biasing factor in comparative outcome research (RA bias hypothesis)"

The result for that study was " Twenty-nine comparisons of TFTs from 20 studies were identified. Initial heterogeneity among relative effect sizes was low. RA was a significant predictor of outcome and explained 12% of the variance in outcomes. The true efficacy hypothesis predicted the RA-outcome association to be zero; however, A SUBSTANTIAL ASSOCIATION WAS FOUND."

" Given findings from psychotherapy research and other fields that support a biasing influence of researcher preferences, RA should be regarded as a causal factor and conceptualized as a threat to the validity of conclusions from comparative outcome studies."

..............

Here's another journal publishication (this issue with bias in research is well known, not just in the science field Im using examples from)

"ALLEGIANCE IN PSYCHOTHERAPY OUTCOME RESEARCH • LEYKIN & DERUBEIS
CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY: SCIENCE AND PRACTICE • V16 N1, MARCH 2009

Allegiance in Psychotherapy Outcome Research: Separating
Association From Bias

Yan Leykin, University of California, San Francisco
Robert J. DeRubeis, University of Pennsylvania

Concern about the contamination of psychotherapy
outcome studies by “allegiance bias”—distortion of
findings because of investigators’ preferences—has led
to the proposal that findings to date should not be used
to make inferences about the relative efficacies of
psychotherapies. It has also been proposed that results
from all such studies should be adjusted to cancel the
presumed distorting effects of allegiances. We argue
that although much effort has been devoted towards
establishing the existence of statistical associations between
allegiances and outcomes, the causal implication—that
investigators’ allegiances influence results—has gone
virtually untested. We present a new vocabulary with
the aim of sharpening the allegiance discourse, and we
propose that research strategies markedly different from
the ones used to date are needed to address some of
the more serious limitations of allegiance bias research."

I think you guys mistakingly view science like it's some sort of religion. It's not! Lol!
You yourself are treating science like its a religion, something you are currently putting all your faith into.

I'll post the study too which shows that there is corruption (researchers purposely lying about results and being deceptive in studies) happening in at least 10% of science (I forget the exact number it was) if I can find the recent research into that. Science itself shows that there is biased and corruption going on in research. (hence why there is currently strong calls into more open research and it is likely things will be being changed as the issues going on in science are more well known now)
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 26 Mar 2013 17:40

Anything involving humans can never be completely objective. But even if it's not perfect, the scientific method still provides us the best way to build a model of how the physical world functions. But you're right, science is not religion.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Ryan
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ryan » 26 Mar 2013 19:12

lucidinthe sky wrote:Anything involving humans can never be completely objective. But even if it's not perfect, the scientific method still provides us the best way to build a model of how the physical world functions. But you're right, science is not religion.

And as you pointed out to me not too long ago...

We can build models about reality, HOWEVER, those models ARE NOT reality. Very important to remember that.
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 26 Mar 2013 20:07

Ryan wrote:
lucidinthe sky wrote:Anything involving humans can never be completely objective. But even if it's not perfect, the scientific method still provides us the best way to build a model of how the physical world functions. But you're right, science is not religion.

And as you pointed out to me not too long ago...

We can build models about reality, HOWEVER, those models ARE NOT reality. Very important to remember that.


This is the conclusion that Steven Hawking has come to and I have a lot of respect for his knowlege.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Jack Reacher
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Jack Reacher » 26 Mar 2013 20:49

A few pages back someone posted something like humans are required for the universe to exist, that our purpose is to define stuff etc. An interesting idea, one I recall coming up with in some weird form one night after smoking too much weed. However this makes you wonder, how did the universe exist before the earth or any life was even created? There must have been a time where consciousness never even existed, yet during the random evolution of the universe it still kept on going without us. Then we came along on Earth and now people seem to have this delusion that we are here for good, that we are holding the Earth together.

I believe that "life" does not represent "Everything", life is only unique to organic life on Earth and possibly some randm microorganisms on other planets, and once its gone here, its over for good, the universe will just carry on completely indifferent to our existence, there is no huge judgement at the end, no recap, nothing is being recorded in some book, and no one is taking any notes except us.

I personally think before religion people must have known this and most couldn't really deal with it, hence why religion works so well, it was sort of a necessity for conscious life. So many communities, tribes, groups, civilisations throughout time all have a unique wack sort of story to explain why we are here and to give us meaning, all contradicting each other and most proving to be mindless noise. But does the alternative, that there is nothing looking out for us, have to be so bleak? Why do people rely on these constructs, thats what interests me the most, it doesnt have to be that way.

I personally think that finding your own happiness and coming into your own personal meaning in that void that many seem to find so depressing is more fulfilling and more real than any sort of set of rules/belief system has ever done for me, it feels more natural because you really do end up coming into your own. I think a deviation from coming into who you are is what ultimately limits yourself.
"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

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Peter
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 27 Mar 2013 00:23

Why do people rely on these constructs, thats what interests me the most, it doesnt have to be that way.


I agree with this and think the need to have a purpose for life is a huge burden and its better to just throw away the need to feel like this and enjoy life for the gift that it is.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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taniaaust1
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby taniaaust1 » 27 Mar 2013 00:32

Worldenterer1 wrote:Heheh, yeah. Headstrong approaches work better in real life: Where people can't delete the conversation or press "X". :lol:
Anyways, we are kinda getting off topic. Sooooooooo, yeah. God... Spirits... Stuff...


In real life thou people cant delete conversations.. people often will walk away or avoid those who disrespect them.

The issue with forums is that people often cant see just how much they are pushing another. They cant hear the tone others are replying back and cant see people getting upset or angry. So some push and push cause no one is telling them to "shut up" like would possibly happen in real life.

I myself.. would very quickly stop speaking and would walk off on one who in real life was displaying no respect for me. The good thing about internet is that most sites have a block which I use if someone gets to be too much.
Last edited by taniaaust1 on 27 Mar 2013 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
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taniaaust1
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby taniaaust1 » 27 Mar 2013 00:37

Ryan wrote:We can build models about reality, HOWEVER, those models ARE NOT reality. Very important to remember that.


:D I thought this was well said. Maybe we will never truely know what reality is, all we have is insights into it.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself


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