Bullying

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Worldenterer1
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Re: Bullying

Postby Worldenterer1 » 28 Mar 2013 21:52

Worldenterer1 wrote:I feel like bullying could be easily solved in many cases by the victims just bucking up and showing that they won't take s**t from anybody.


lucidinthe sky wrote:I don't think that's the solution. First of all, not everyone is in a position to able to do that successfully. And even if they can, they shouldn't have to.

I was picked on in school just about every day for quite a while. Then one day I kicked the shit out of a couple of kids. O.K. yes they left me alone after that, but that is not the solution. If people want to live like animals, fine, we can put them in cages.


So, they left you alone? Sounds like a solution to me! Why don't you think so?

I know it wont work for everyone, which is why I made a point to say "in many cases". Also, if you try living your whole life like some kind of superior being and avoid anything that might resemble "living like an animal", you might not enjoy things as much.

Why would you ever want to put someone in a cage!? :o
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Worldenterer1
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Re: Bullying

Postby Worldenterer1 » 28 Mar 2013 21:54

Ryan wrote:The solution isn't to tell people to buck up.
The solution is to STOP bullying from happening in the first place.


Stopping bullying from happening in the first place is so impossibly difficult to do. That's almost like telling people that they aren't allowed to thing about certain things or say certain things.

It's analogy time! :D The next best thing to do if you can't get a person to disarm their gun is to wear a bulletproof vest.
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taniaaust1
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Re: Bullying

Postby taniaaust1 » 28 Mar 2013 22:06

Worldenterer1 wrote:I feel like bullying could be easily solved in many cases by the victims just bucking up and showing that they won't take s**t from anybody.


What's a victim meant to do to "buck up"? Ignore them?... I was badly bullied at school for years and I know from that that ignoring a bully doesnt at all work, bullies then often will do worst and worst things till one has no choice but to react to them eg I FAILED in a subject at school on term due to a bully.. the bully went as far as destroying the school project I was making right before I was due to hand it in.

Often the bully too will be bigger and stronger then the victim they are picking on. I had a girl at least two grades older then me, shove my head down a loo and flush it. What is worst is bullies often get their friends to help them too... how is one truely meant to stand up to that?

A boy bully once pushed me into and locked me in a cage at school right after school. Yeah I did stop his bullying in the end but after trying everything else to stop it for years, I ended up stopping it with violence(he'd bullied me for 2-3 years). I lost the plot and after he hurt me once again re pulling my hair, he'd actually pull some of my hair out.. after also trying to cut my hair in class. I got up with my school compass and tried to nail his hand to a desk with it, slamming it down towards the desk and his hand as hard as I could (fortunately he had quick reflexes). Had I managed to do what I tried to do.. I would of been in SERIOUS trouble with the school as an adult one cant do things like that as one can end up in JAIL!! (so tell me how one "bucks up" to bullies).

The severe bullying I had at school as left me even over 20 years later with issues as nowdays I CANT STAND to see anyone being physically bullied (I find it extremely disturbing so much so it can almost make me psychotic to see it happening in front of me) and will jump into situations to stop it even if its putting my life at risk. (I was on bail for aggrevated assault for nearly a year due to trying to stick up for myself and my family.. so now I have a record which stops me from being able to visit some countries and if I went to work, I'd have to worry about jobs I apply for, the police check). Ive gone into dangerous situations with strangers a few times and could of been killed or bashed and one had a weapon.

* Note AFTER long bullying I did tell the teachers at school but to no avail.. the bullies just lied. My mother even ended up getting angry over the situation and went down and see the head master. Things didnt change. I ended up LEAVING school due to this and went into home schooling for my last year of school.
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Bullying

Postby lucidinthe sky » 29 Mar 2013 00:08

Worldenterer1 wrote:
So, they left you alone? Sounds like a solution to me! Why don't you think so?

I know it wont work for everyone, which is why I made a point to say "in many cases". Also, if you try living your whole life like some kind of superior being and avoid anything that might resemble "living like an animal", you might not enjoy things as much.

Why would you ever want to put someone in a cage!? :o


Yes we do put people in cages, called jails, especially ones who think they can solve their problems with violence. I've never heard of anyone using evolution as a defense for violence against another human. I can just imagine how that would go down: "Well judge, this is all about the survival of the fittest and since I'm stronger, I get to pass on my superior genes whereas this person I beat up so badly that I killed him, well he is obviously weak and needed to removed from the gene pool so what I did was just simply evolution. I did the entire species a service actually. Oh and by the way judge, don't try to act superior to me and say that my behavior is animalistic. Just who do you think you are anyway?"
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Ryan
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Re: Bullying

Postby Ryan » 29 Mar 2013 01:48

Worldenterer1 wrote:Stopping bullying from happening in the first place is so impossibly difficult to do.

All it takes is education and the correct tools at the disposal of law enforcement.

That's almost like telling people that they aren't allowed to thing about certain things or say certain things.

I disagree completely. Are you trying to say that bullying should be allowed because the person who is bullying deserves to bully?

It's analogy time! :D The next best thing to do if you can't get a person to disarm their gun is to wear a bulletproof vest.

Oh I'm not getting into the gun debate. LOL ;)
I'm staying far away from that one...

The root of the problem isn't to make bullying more accepted, which is what you're suggesting we do.

You don't fix something by making the victims accept it. You fix something by actually fixing the problem. The problem is that bullying is simply unacceptable behaviour. We humans might be animals, but we're also supposed to be civilized.

It might sound silly when we're talking about "bullying"... actually, let's stop using the word "bullying", because it's not bullying at all. The term "Bullying" gives it a childish persona. Let's call it what it really is: physical harassment. And it's covered by law with accompanying legal ramifications.

Let's take this to an extreme for just a second... consider "rape". I'm sure you're thinking to yourself, BUT THAT'S DIFFERENT! No, it's really not... and if you decide to categorize in such a manner, then this discussion has kind of ended before it really began.

A lot of people in this world are hypocrites... they believe in, say, two things that are completely contradicting. For example, being pro-life... but supporting war. Anyway, I think that's my two cents on the subject. I'll just leave it at that for now. LoL
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taniaaust1
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Re: Bullying

Postby taniaaust1 » 29 Mar 2013 02:27

Ryan wrote:It might sound silly when we're talking about "bullying"... actually, let's stop using the word "bullying", because it's not bullying at all. The term "Bullying" gives it a childish persona. Let's call it what it really is: physical harassment. And it's covered by law with accompanying legal ramifications.


Dont forget there is verbal bullying too to the point that some cant take it no more and in some cases leads to suicide. Verbal bullying can be just as psychologically damaging as physical bullying can be.

Let's take this to an extreme for just a second... consider "rape". I'm sure you're thinking to yourself, BUT THAT'S DIFFERENT! No, it's really not... and if you decide to categorize in such a manner, then this discussion has kind of ended before it really began.


Im glad you brought up that rape is a form of bullying, it is an extreme form of bullying.. I was thinking about that before.

One of the reasons why I felt so offended by something saying to "buck up" to bullying and bullying can be violent and life threatening.

One of those who I helped in the past was severely bullied by her uncle (raped etc from the age of 10 years old and still was being raped by him in her early 20s). She couldnt "buck up" she was too petrified to move out of her uncles house and stop living with him, he controlled every thing.. who she spoke to etc etc (he smashed her computer when he found out she had been chatting to me on that). She believed he'd come after her and kill her if she left here. (he had already broken her arm and done so much more to her, I truely feared for her life). She was too terrified to even go to the police about it and the police wouldnt go and help her when i went to them about it unless she herself made a report. She was incapable of getting out of that situation (me and another stepped in in the end and forced her out of it, using her fear of him which was the only way we could as that overrode everything else to her. (We told her we'd confront him over what he was doing to her and went to do that, went to her work, waiting for him to show up and wouldnt leave to her pleas to do so before he showed up.. that idea terrified her enough to force her into coming with us before he did show up .. we couldnt get her to leave any other way. She left EVERYTHING behind.. only had the clothes on her back and was too scared to go back)

Is this truely okay? is bullying and having another be in such degree of fear okay? Bullying is a form of wanting power over another and seeing another suffer. Is that truely okay?

(i feel sorry for anyone who believes that is really okay).
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Worldenterer1
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Re: Bullying

Postby Worldenterer1 » 29 Mar 2013 02:51

Worldenterer1 wrote:
So, they left you alone? Sounds like a solution to me! Why don't you think so?

I know it wont work for everyone, which is why I made a point to say "in many cases". Also, if you try living your whole life like some kind of superior being and avoid anything that might resemble "living like an animal", you might not enjoy things as much.

Why would you ever want to put someone in a cage!? :o


lucidinthe sky wrote:Yes we do put people in cages, called jails, especially ones who think they can solve their problems with violence. I've never heard of anyone using evolution as a defense for violence against another human. I can just imagine how that would go down: "Well judge, this is all about the survival of the fittest and since I'm stronger, I get to pass on my superior genes whereas this person I beat up so badly that I killed him, well he is obviously weak and needed to removed from the gene pool so what I did was just simply evolution.


Hey hey now, I never said anything about evolution. I think bullying has nothing to do with it. All I was saying is that in many cases, retaliation is necessary to solve the problem.

lucidinthe sky wrote:I did the entire species a service actually. Oh and by the way judge, don't try to act superior to me and say that my behavior is animalistic. Just who do you think you are anyway?"


Wait, were you saying the judge was calling you animalistic and acting like your superior, or I was? Because I've done no such thing.
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Worldenterer1
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Re: Bullying

Postby Worldenterer1 » 29 Mar 2013 03:01

Worldenterer1 wrote:Stopping bullying from happening in the first place is so impossibly difficult to do.


Ryan wrote:All it takes is education and the correct tools at the disposal of law enforcement.


Hmm, really? Because that's exactly what the school systems in my town have been doing for years and there's no change at all!

Worldenterer1 wrote:That's almost like telling people that they aren't allowed to thing about certain things or say certain things.


Ryan wrote:I disagree completely. Are you trying to say that bullying should be allowed because the person who is bullying deserves to bully?


Nobody deserves to be bullied! I'm just saying that it's nearly impossible to prevent people from bullying in the first place. It's just such a simple and easy thing to do that nothing short of 24/7 camera surveillance would alert people of it (Which would be outrageous to do). Then you have cyber bullying, discreet bullying, all kinds of it.

Worldenterer1 wrote:It's analogy time! :D The next best thing to do if you can't get a person to disarm their gun is to wear a bulletproof vest.


Ryan wrote:Oh I'm not getting into the gun debate. LOL ;)
I'm staying far away from that one...


Good idea! We need a new thread for that!

Ryan wrote:The root of the problem isn't to make bullying more accepted, which is what you're suggesting we do.

You don't fix something by making the victims accept it. You fix something by actually fixing the problem. The problem is that bullying is simply unacceptable behaviour. We humans might be animals, but we're also supposed to be civilized.


Nonononononononono! I am by no means making sure it is more accepted. I am saying that we need to direct our focus on "bully proofing" the victims, not "un bullying" the bullies. There will always be bullies no matter what. I want nothing less than to fix the problem. I believe this can be done in many cases by depriving the bullies of victims.

Ryan wrote:Let's take this to an extreme for just a second... consider "rape". I'm sure you're thinking to yourself, BUT THAT'S DIFFERENT! No, it's really not... and if you decide to categorize in such a manner, then this discussion has kind of ended before it really began.
A lot of people in this world are hypocrites... they believe in, say, two things that are completely contradicting. For example, being pro-life... but supporting war. Anyway, I think that's my two cents on the subject. I'll just leave it at that for now. LoL


Now wait a minute, I never shout "But that's different", but could you please rephrase that paragraph about rape? Because I didn't really understand what you were trying to say. I want to understand your point of view to the fullest.
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Worldenterer1
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Re: Bullying

Postby Worldenterer1 » 29 Mar 2013 03:15

taniaaust1 wrote:Im glad you brought up that rape is a form of bullying, it is an extreme form of bullying.. I was thinking about that before.

One of the reasons why I felt so offended by something saying to "buck up" to bullying and bullying can be violent and life threatening.

One of those who I helped in the past was severely bullied by her uncle (raped etc from the age of 10 years old and still was being raped by him in her early 20s). She couldnt "buck up" she was too petrified to move out of her uncles house and stop living with him, he controlled every thing.. who she spoke to etc etc (he smashed her computer when he found out she had been chatting to me on that). She believed he'd come after her and kill her if she left here. (he had already broken her arm and done so much more to her, I truely feared for her life). She was too terrified to even go to the police about it and the police wouldnt go and help her when i went to them about it unless she herself made a report. She was incapable of getting out of that situation (me and another stepped in in the end and forced her out of it, using her fear of him which was the only way we could as that overrode everything else to her. (We told her we'd confront him over what he was doing to her and went to do that, went to her work, waiting for him to show up and wouldnt leave to her pleas to do so before he showed up.. that idea terrified her enough to force her into coming with us before he did show up .. we couldnt get her to leave any other way. She left EVERYTHING behind.. only had the clothes on her back and was too scared to go back)

Is this truely okay? is bullying and having another be in such degree of fear okay? Bullying is a form of wanting power over another and seeing another suffer. Is that truely okay?

(i feel sorry for anyone who believes that is really okay).


I'm sorry to hear that tragic story. By saying "buck up" I was referring mainly to school based situations. I am aware that many times, even in school, people are unable to retaliate because of a lack of physical power. However, there are many situations where a headstrong approach would easily act as a solution. As for more serious issues like the one you brought up, I am unsure of a solution.
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Re: Bullying

Postby lucidinthe sky » 29 Mar 2013 03:36

Worldenterer1 wrote:Wait, were you saying the judge was calling you animalistic and acting like your superior, or I was? Because I've done no such thing.


I was talking about an fictional accused criminal talking to a fictional judge, not refering to you. Sorry you took it that way.


Worldenterer1 wrote:
Nobody deserves to be bullied! I'm just saying that it's nearly impossible to prevent people from bullying in the first place. It's just such a simple and easy thing to do that nothing short of 24/7 camera surveillance would alert people of it (Which would be outrageous to do). Then you have cyber bullying, discreet bullying, all kinds of it.


You are right that it's not possible to prevent bullying, and you really can't be watching everthing. Thta's true, but where I think the focus should be is with what I call the "passive" participants. Bullies can only operate in settings where the people around them do nothing to stop them. If we can get those people who sit passively on the sidelines watching to take action, we can stop bullying.
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