Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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Summerlander
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Re: Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Postby Summerlander » 27 Apr 2013 01:28

I'm not talking about research in universities. I'm talking about science is done properly. The scholars can only be competitive in the realm of uncertainty for so long and naturally people defend the ideas and interpretations they come up with. But science is science. If someone is not doing it properly they get found out. Moreover, whatever the interpretation, the outcome from experimentation is undeniable and something that everyone has to accept. Not because it's a dogma but because it is fact. Anyone who denies fact is a fool.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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mia
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Re: Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Postby mia » 27 Apr 2013 02:13

LucidLink, you make some very good points, but I actually believe Science is very right brain when it's at it's best. When Scientists are motivated by a wonder for exploring life; they can be very creative individuals indeed. Then it is balanced.
I think you are right Summerlander; it's at it's best when it's motive is truth.

(My apologies to Debreb; I'm afraid we're getting off of your topic.)
The key to creativity is to remove the watchers from the gates, and realize how free you really are.

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Summerlander
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Re: Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Postby Summerlander » 27 Apr 2013 13:23

You're right, mia. We're off on a tangent. Taking about communing with deceased relatives in dreams would be closer to the topic.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

debreb
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Re: Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Postby debreb » 03 May 2013 10:48

Wow- what an interesting discussion! Thanks to everyone for responding!
The thing about this dream was that I took no steps in becoming lucid... I was having a normal dream (albeit about my grandfather) and it sort of seemed like HE "broke through" in a sense, and changed it into a lucid dream! I remember a very intense feeling of pure elation and happiness at the realisation that it was REALLY him. I don't know, I understand the brain is an AMAZING organ... this just felt like it came from outwith me! I guess I feel like maybe I was teetering about in some "area" or plane while I was dreaming that he (or his spirit) could reach!

I don't follow any particular religion and am open to most concepts- even Summerlanders cheery oblivion theory! ... I just think there is so much that we don't yet understand and, possibly, that we are not ABLE to understand in the human state. I read recently: when you look at your hand, just because you can only see one side, doesn't mean that the other side isn't there. I like that!

I wonder what you guys think about little kids (between sort of two and 4) who start talking about past lives and recall details that they have no way of otherwise knowing? Just what I've been reading about lately and wondered if anyone has any thoughts?

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Summerlander
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Re: Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Postby Summerlander » 03 May 2013 20:21

I have looked into the evidence for reincarnation thoroughly and have debated this many times before with people. I find the evidence for reincarnation out there insufficient. The latest I heard was the "boy from Mars". I follow science, and, as you are well aware, also hold a secularist stance.

While it's true that we still have not solved the mystery of consciousness, because, as you have rightly said, sometimes the answers are not so obvious, we must also not dismiss what we have discovered so far. The history of neuroscience has a weighty body of evidence that weighs in favour monism, in the sense that we are our physical bodies, more precisely, our brains (where consciousness most likely arises epiphenomenally).

We are in a position today where we can say, with great confidence, that Descartes' Dualism is absurd and the vitalist doctrine that living things must contain a non-physical element remains scientifically insubstantial.

As regards reincarnation cases, we need to be careful when vetting the parties involved before we jump to the conclusion that we have an immortal soul. We need to rule out carefully crafted hoaxes, confirmation bias, press fabricating sensationalist scoops, authors willing to publish material that people would like to read for personal satisfaction etc.

We must also not overlook possible mundane explanations. For instance, false memory that coincides with real past events (it can happen); the child overhearing something that was later brought back, mistakenly, as a memory; cryptomnesia (look it up!); the possibility that memories, or flashes of them, can be inherited in your genome and manifest as dreams, etc.

I think we die and that's it. Am I a fatalist for thinking this way? Not necessarily. Science could one day render us immortal in our present physical condition, which, in my opinion, is the only possible condition to be in as a living human being.

But I also think death is a blessing in disguise. Would you really want to live forever? Think about the mental torture as you run out of things to do and gradually become bored of doing and thinking the same things an infinite number of times. Soon you'd be saying, "Get me out of here before I lose my mind!"

But this is just my cheery oblivion theory... ;)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

LucidLink
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Re: Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Postby LucidLink » 05 May 2013 20:30

Summerlander wrote:I have looked into the evidence for reincarnation thoroughly and have debated this many times before with people. I find the evidence for reincarnation out there insufficient. The latest I heard was the "boy from Mars". I follow science, and, as you are well aware, also hold a secularist stance.

While it's true that we still have not solved the mystery of consciousness, because, as you have rightly said, sometimes the answers are not so obvious, we must also not dismiss what we have discovered so far. The history of neuroscience has a weighty body of evidence that weighs in favour monism, in the sense that we are our physical bodies, more precisely, our brains (where consciousness most likely arises epiphenomenally).

We are in a position today where we can say, with great confidence, that Descartes' Dualism is absurd and the vitalist doctrine that living things must contain a non-physical element remains scientifically insubstantial.

As regards reincarnation cases, we need to be careful when vetting the parties involved before we jump to the conclusion that we have an immortal soul. We need to rule out carefully crafted hoaxes, confirmation bias, press fabricating sensationalist scoops, authors willing to publish material that people would like to read for personal satisfaction etc.

We must also not overlook possible mundane explanations. For instance, false memory that coincides with real past events (it can happen); the child overhearing something that was later brought back, mistakenly, as a memory; cryptomnesia (look it up!); the possibility that memories, or flashes of them, can be inherited in your genome and manifest as dreams, etc.

I think we die and that's it. Am I a fatalist for thinking this way? Not necessarily. Science could one day render us immortal in our present physical condition, which, in my opinion, is the only possible condition to be in as a living human being.

But I also think death is a blessing in disguise. Would you really want to live forever? Think about the mental torture as you run out of things to do and gradually become bored of doing and thinking the same things an infinite number of times. Soon you'd be saying, "Get me out of here before I lose my mind!"

But this is just my cheery oblivion theory... ;)


PleAse look into a book called "Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife" by Eben Alexander, M.D.

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mia
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Re: Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Postby mia » 05 May 2013 20:41

And me: I prefer a bit of a mystery; and choose to experience some things beyond their physical qualities. Sometimes I think it's like standing in front an amazing work of art and only considering it as looking at pigments created from acrylics that are dabbed on a 2 dimensional canvas and the effect is an illusion of 3 dimensions due to the application of one point perspective; in which case I've missed something sort of wonderful. I could do the same with music. I just don't want to. ;) Each to their own.
The key to creativity is to remove the watchers from the gates, and realize how free you really are.

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Summerlander
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Re: Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Postby Summerlander » 05 May 2013 22:47

Trust me, LucidLink. I've looked into that book ages ago. Don't be fooled by it. First, it is certainly no proof of heaven, second - reverberations in his brain would have been measurable using adequate equipment in the lab, third - even the author admits a distortion of time perception which can occur through brain malfunction (and malfunction is still function lol).

It's not the first time a scientist is biased by faith and spirituality. Thankfully, the majority are honest and have a head about them.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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taniaaust1
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Re: Speaking With Dead Grandfather

Postby taniaaust1 » 17 May 2013 09:40

debreb wrote:I wonder what you guys think about little kids (between sort of two and 4) who start talking about past lives and recall details that they have no way of otherwise knowing? Just what I've been reading about lately and wondered if anyone has any thoughts?


I dont know any little kids who have done that but have had some interesting experiences which have confirmed to myself that we have past lives. I also carry some of my own past life memories and have come across others I was with in those lifetimes who also carried the same memories and remembered me. (I used to hang around with a lot of psychics and energyworkers and they like myself often carry past life memories too so at times one comes across a soul mate who actually can remember the same thing and oneself).

Here's two experiences I'll share.

When my daughter was young (I think she was 3 yrs old?? at the time, I cant remember.. she was very young), I came across a book on past life regression and in this book it actually had the past life regression hypnosis technique in it.. all the wording to use to put someone under and into a so called past life. (I hope no one gets angry at me for what Im about to say). Anyway.. I was in my early 20s at the time and had an intense curiousity and couldnt see any harm in trying this out on my young child (yeah, yeah, I know completely irresponsible!!).

Anyway.. I got my daughter to lay on the couch, shut her eyes and read this meditation to her (she was a very bright child, actually gifted, so intellegent above her years). I asked her something and what really stunned me is my 3 year old who was then in a trance who I'd been expecting to answer my questions in her own normal talking and in english, started talking fluently in another language... german or something. I freaked out at that as I hadnt been expecting anything to happen to brought her quickly back out of the state (following the books instructions and counting her back to our reality).

Things went wrong thou.. my daughter was left speaking with a strong strange accent for several days (I was further freaked out for that and wondered what on earth I was going to do and started to try to find hypnosis people to fix her). Fortunately after a few days she got her normal voice back.
..........................................

Same daughter.. but another experience.

I gained a past life memory in which my daughter had been a leader of some cult who did rituals (satanic like) and had sacrified me. I had a deep inner fear of her due to that. I never told my daughter this (I certainly wasnt about to tell her she'd murdered me). About a year or so after I'd regained this memory I kept to myself not noting it down anywhere or telling anyone, her best male friend of about 15 years old, one day flipped completely out and ended up hiding under her bed in fear of her. (I think then fled our house, I didnt find out about this till just after).

She came to me obviously a bit disturbed about what happened and told me that he had told her that he suddenly found himself reliving her sacrificing him in a ritual as part of a cult (hence why this 15 year old had ended up in fear under her bed hiding). She then goes to me "mum".. I really feel like its true and that I did that to him.. could that be true? She then started describing herself in that other life. (I think I told her what she did to me at that point or I may of later on, as far as I know she hasnt remembered sacrificing me).

Coincidence?? well it would be truely a strange one.
................

My second daughter. In a past life in what appears may of been England, I was partly responsible for her death and abused her, I still remember her from that lifetime, she was around 3 years old at the time.. a foster child my husband and I of that lifetime took in, we buried her in the garden. That daughter hates me this lifetime and doesnt really know why (I assume she dont remember but who really knows, I havent told her.. how does one broach the "do you remember that I buried you in the garden" thing?), she wont even speak to me. Maybe she wont forgive me this lifetime. (I was in the ICU nearly died, had been unconscious for days and she'd refused to come to the hospital when the hospital had rang her telling her I was in intensive care and unconscious).
The only thing to fear is the fear itself


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