Killing Dream Characters

What have you learned from your dream characters? What do they say, what do they represent, what motivates them, why do they exist?
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mia
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby mia » 03 May 2013 02:52

If you will excuse me, I will quote myself from an earlier post, which also applies here in relation to killing DCs:

Because I feel dream figures are aspects of your own subconscious; then I think if you 'blind' a DC, you are 'blinding' a part of your own psyche. They are all you after all. How could they be anything else? Perhaps sometimes they are even an aspect of your 'shadow', as Jung would say; in which case, 'threatening figures' would need integration and understanding ( being brought into the 'light' of conscious awareness, rather than suppressed, and hidden, or 'held down', or overpowered.) Jung felt that suppression of the shadow self only caused it to grow and create more disturbance for you and your psyche. (Perhaps Dream Figures are significant and require somewhat more respect than treating them as a video type game.) After all, consciousness in the dreamworld ( being lucid), I believe, is your 'ego' operating within the subconscious realm ( and the subconscious is a very rich and significant part of a person's being in whatever forms it may take).
The key to creativity is to remove the watchers from the gates, and realize how free you really are.

TimeTravelerCat
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby TimeTravelerCat » 03 May 2013 03:57

tea wrote:okay, so here's the thing. at least my thing. no not that thing. ;)

i'm pretty certain that you really can't tell whether it's something bad, or not. or better: in my opinion you can't generalize it - everybody has to know/decide for himself or herself. (also it's depends on the situation)

explanations via examples:

case 1:
you dream of killing somebody or something for no comprehensible reason (or maybe because in that dream you even enjoy it).
what i think about that:
i'd try to figure out where this idea came from.
like working on questions like: what is bugging me, that my subconscious decided to deal with it this way? there must be something that i'm afraid of (even when i did it for fun) - what is it?

case 2:
it's a nightmare. something is threatening you or maybe something (or someone) you like.
finally you kill the enemy.
what i think about that:
depending on how it feels i'd say that's definitely nothing to worry about, because to me thats a way of solving problems.
in waking life, when you manage to sort out a problem, you could metaphorically say you "killed" the problem.
i see dreams as the language of the subconsciousness - and it loves to talk in metaphors (you could say we're all poets). so killing something in a dream, can be like getting rid of something you're struggling with.
bere aware that putting somthing (or someone) to death, the problem does not have to be solved. but if that killing was an act of supression, your subconscious will still find a way to express what it has to say.
so i don't think it can do you any significant psychological harm.





To me tea, it doesn't quite sound like you are talking about lucid dreams, but actually talking about semi-lucid dreams (yes, there is a difference. lol). But I do agree on your message. It may not be psychologically harming you, but now that I think about it, killing DC's could possibly be promoting physical violence in the "real" world. And the people who are killing others in their lucid dreams for fun, develop a habit of justifying their actions.


Just an interesting thought ;)


~ Meow

TimeTravelerCat
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby TimeTravelerCat » 03 May 2013 04:21

Okay....Even if killing DC's is not psychologically harmful to you, I have a different way of thinking about it. Using the example of video games (First person shooters and some violent movies too), I have to say that playing lots of those games will make you at least a tiny bit more violent. Now I must say that killing for fun or from anger, in lucid dreams probably promotes more physical violence in their "real" waking life. And those people who enjoy killing people in their lucid dreams get into a habit of justifying their actions on a regular basis. Not pointing any fingers. This could be dangerous....

Just my thought.

P.S. This is probably really random to you but I have to say it anyway. I don't really like hippies. (I picture drugs, trespassing, and vandalism of property w/ spraypaint) Peace out.

~ Meow

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Summerlander
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby Summerlander » 03 May 2013 11:27

I think the whole thing is not as black and white as the notion that killing in dreams is necessarily an act of repression or incited by deep-seated fears.

I think the waking life context with which we can apply what we take from lucid dreams is being largely overlooked. For instance, if you're a soldier and you know you'll be going into battle soon, you might want to use lucid dreaming to practice your death moves in realistic warzone environments - the latter you don't get to experience during training. So, besides your waking life training,lucid dreaming can give you a realistic experience of war and can help with your physical coordinates.

Lucid dreaming can also help you with the issue of "having it in you to kill". I don't think it's taboo to kill in your dreams any more than I think thoughts of strangling your asshole of a boss at work should be policed.

It's as harmless as punching a punch bag. It could even be used as recreational fun. Like playing a videogame. Why not use your mental resources to extract the pleasure you might feel when you play Quake or Medal of Honour? Even better: you have a mental virtual reality scenario where you are free to be John McClane, slaughter the bad guys and say "yeepie kye yay..."

Lucid dreaming doesn't always have to be about problem-solving. Have fun! Don't be limited by beliefs or preconceived notions. Trust me, I have used lucid dreaming for many things and I'm still here healthy as ever.

If we worry about what we can and can't do in our dreams then we are limiting ourselves. If you worry about killing, for whatever reason, then what's stops you from worrying about raping a DC when you decide to have lucid dream sex? Even if the character says "yes" it could mean "no" if you believe DCs are somehow sentient...

It's your mind. Do with it what you will...

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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tea
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby tea » 03 May 2013 12:17

TimeTravelerCat wrote:It may not be psychologically harming you, but now that I think about it, killing DC's could possibly be promoting physical violence in the "real" world. And the people who are killing others in their lucid dreams for fun, develop a habit of justifying their actions.

Just an interesting thought ;)


not sure about that. how do you think killing in dreams can promote violence in "real" life? do you mean that you get used to it, making it more likely to act that way? this probably goes for some people but it's nothing i'd be worrying about.
i'd rather focus on what kind of thoughts you're having while awake. to me, they influence every day life way stronger then what happens in peoples dreams.
so before you use up all your energy for cleaning up your dreamworld, become aware of your thoughts first. eventually, your dreams will clean up all by them self if you do so.


TimeTravelerCat wrote:P.S. This is probably really random to you but I have to say it anyway. I don't really like hippies. (I picture drugs, trespassing, and vandalism of property w/ spraypaint) Peace out.


uhhm.. what?

if that's the case, please reconsider your definiton of "hippie".
the #1 word that descibes the basis of hippies is love.

so, just to go through the things you enumerated:

- trespassing: i think your picture of hippie-freedom also means ignorance and egoism.
trespassing is absolutely something "real" hippies do NOT stand for. personal space and respect are vital, so if you see someone calling himself or herself a "hippie" and at the same time they are hurting someone elses freedom, they probably have not understood a couple of things.
still, there ARE those well-know revolutionary acts like protesting and this kind of stuff which made it easy for the rich to picture hippies as "evil". please don't let your opinion be blinded be those who want you to believe THEIR truths and not your own.
it's ok to not like hippies, but make sure to make your own experiences before judging someone. always keep an open mind, everybody is different and you can learn from every person on earth.

- vandalism (spraypaint etc):
here goes pretty much the same as i said above..
just a reminder: destroying property and spreading graffities mostly is the "job" of punks and other people who -just like hippies- want significant change, but have too much sorrow inside to work it out peacefully.

- drugs: i intentionally listed this at the end, since i wanted to make clear the other points.
okay, so drugs. first off: do you see them as something bad or evil?
if so, let me ask you something: is fire bad or evil?
drugs are tools, just like fire. the tool itself is neutral but the user can act good or bad.

so, let me stick to that fire-metaphor:
if you play with it without any experience or caution, chances are that you'll end up hurting yourself and others. on the other hand, if you know what you're doing, you'll be able to do good things with it.
fire without control can burn a whole forest, animals, people and stuff.
controlled fire on the other hand can lead to cooking, staying warm (and not dying, which is pretty useful) and making torches so that you can light up your way through the dark.

i hope you see what i mean when i say that drugs are not bad by themselves.

BUT ATTENTION: due to fear, we humans easily lose sight of the important things in life, leading to addictions. there probably are infinite kinds of addictions like TV, food, sex, drugs and other stuff so what's very important to me, is to know yourself before trying to play with drugs.

sad thing is: exactly the opposite seems to happen to many people which leads to many different kinds of problems, including aggression. when other people see that in combination with drugs, they blame the drugs while in reality, this person lost control before doing them. at this point, drugs will increase the burning tree, turning it into a forest fire.




if you learn to truly love yourself, you'll automaticly learn to love everything else in this life, including people in all their imperfectness.
that's what i've learned so far and many of those things came from what i'd call "hippies".

☺ nice, you are a curious one! come, follow me into the rabbit hole if you want to: http://lost-and-fun.tumblr. com/


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Summerlander
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby Summerlander » 03 May 2013 19:36

LOL! :lol:
I just thought of something because of tea's post!

As I've said before, if you take the dream character rights activist stance and worry about killing, then what stops you from worrying about raping a dream person when you decide to have lucid dream sex? What if the character's apparent consent is a misleading distortion brought about by the fabric of dream reality? And it doesn't stop there! What if every time you enter a new environment or scene you are trespassing? What if every time you experiment with psychedelics in dreamland you are violating some law?

You guys see why, so far, I find the prohibition of killing in dreams unjustified and the reasons for it infeasible? Hippies knew the deal in waking life when they evaded certain social restrictions very much to the dismay of Ronald Reagan. :mrgreen:

Why not be exorbitant in one's dream moves? Why not push the boundaries and explore? You know the deal in waking life but the rules no longer apply in the potentially abstractionist world of lucid dreaming... 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Guitar48300
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby Guitar48300 » 03 May 2013 20:23

I think it just depends on the person.
For me it depends on what kind of dream character I want to make. Sometimes I want to create dream characters just to befriend and hang out with them. Other times I want to create evil dream characters for me to fight, and sometimes kill(unless they kill me first). I had a blast in my first lucid dream when I killed evil soldiers. Mostly because I enjoy lots of action adventure video games. Most of them T or M rated.
Last edited by Guitar48300 on 04 May 2013 00:25, edited 2 times in total.
Roxas: Did you have fun chatting with the ghosts?
Sora: You shouldn't call them "ghosts". Sure something seemed a little off but I'm sure they're still my friends

-KH Re:coded
xat.com/luciddreamers if anyone wants to use it

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Summerlander
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby Summerlander » 03 May 2013 20:34

COOOOL!!! 8-)

By the way, do you like the progressive death metal band Scar Symmetry? Maybe there is a psychological correlation here... :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Guitar48300
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby Guitar48300 » 03 May 2013 21:55

Summerlander wrote:COOOOL!!! 8-)

By the way, do you like the progressive death metal band Scar Symmetry? Maybe there is a psychological correlation here... :mrgreen:

Heck yeah! They're one of my top 5 favorite bands. I feel like I'm in a dream when I listen to them. When I make a band I want some of our songs to have a similar sound to scar symmetry's instuments and the lead singer's clean vocals. So cool I actually found another person who knows who they are. :mrgreen:
Roxas: Did you have fun chatting with the ghosts?
Sora: You shouldn't call them "ghosts". Sure something seemed a little off but I'm sure they're still my friends

-KH Re:coded
xat.com/luciddreamers if anyone wants to use it

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Summerlander
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Re: Killing Dream Characters

Postby Summerlander » 04 May 2013 00:46

I found out about them in a Metal Hammer mag and liked what I heard. I remember thinking that they were supercool and, would you believe it, that if I formed a band it would have to sound like them! The vocals, the guitars, the rhythm, and the drumming are awesome. I'm glad we have that in common besides our lucid dreaming pasttime. :-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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