ok so I'm starting to doubt

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neverlandjulia
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby neverlandjulia » 30 Apr 2013 22:20

jesus I am so FRUSTRATED! last night I had false awakening again and I tried to stabilisase it so I rubbed my hands and yet I still woke up after 3 seconds!! holy mother of god...

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Summerlander
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby Summerlander » 30 Apr 2013 22:39

Keep trying. If you think the dream environment will collapse then it will. Rub your hands, intensify your sensations, and think that it will work. If the dream is about to fade, don't give up without a fight; continue rubbing your hands, your body, the floor, walls, spin, somersault, and even grab a dream object in order to anchor yourself there. Then don't waste any time; immediately execute your plan of action, e.g., fly to the moon, have a romantic dinner with a celebrity you find attractive, go back in time and talk to Buddha, etc.

And remember... every time the lucid dream starts to fade, apply techniques to bring it back. It may also be worth reminding yourself once in a while that it is all a dream so that you don't lose consciousness (waking up is not the only worry).

Another thing...

A return to your perceived sleeping body doesn't mean it is the end of the lucid dreaming experience. Michael Raduga said it well in "The Phase" guidebook, page 219: "Keep in mind that trying to immediately separate upon awakening is a skill of the utmost importance; one that is worth honing from the very beginning, never forgotten."
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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taniaaust1
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby taniaaust1 » 01 May 2013 06:49

Try to be happy that you actually become aware it was a false awakening. Focus on the positives. Feeling frustrated wont help things. See each opportunity as a chance to learn more about staying in the dream. Lots of us have issues with hanging in there (currently myself included..but Im slowly finding better things which help).

Michael Raduga said it well in "The Phase" guidebook, page 219: "Keep in mind that trying to immediately separate upon awakening is a skill of the utmost importance; one that is worth honing from the very beginning, never forgotten."


I completely agree with that.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

neverlandjulia
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby neverlandjulia » 01 May 2013 11:48

Summerlander wrote:Keep trying. If you think the dream environment will collapse then it will. Rub your hands, intensify your sensations, and think that it will work. If the dream is about to fade, don't give up without a fight; continue rubbing your hands, your body, the floor, walls, spin, somersault, and even grab a dream object in order to anchor yourself there. Then don't waste any time; immediately execute your plan of action, e.g., fly to the moon, have a romantic dinner with a celebrity you find attractive, go back in time and talk to Buddha, etc.

And remember... every time the lucid dream starts to fade, apply techniques to bring it back. It may also be worth reminding yourself once in a while that it is all a dream so that you don't lose consciousness (waking up is not the only worry).

Another thing...

A return to your perceived sleeping body doesn't mean it is the end of the lucid dreaming experience. Michael Raduga said it well in "The Phase" guidebook, page 219: "Keep in mind that trying to immediately separate upon awakening is a skill of the utmost importance; one that is worth honing from the very beginning, never forgotten."


oh God, if I only had time to try to even one of those things, that would be amazing. But actually it lasted only 3 seconds during which I was still lying in my bed (I recognised it was a dream because the feeling was weird and my bed was in different place of the room) and I didn't even make it to get out of it, I could just move my hands, nothing more.

I don't really know what Michael Raduga had in mind... what's so difficult in recognising when you're no longer dreaming? or maybe I didn't understand the quote right?

another question from another topic that I hope you guys will know answer for is ; once I become more aware, stable in dreams and will have more control over them, is it possible to create a dream character? for example, I would like to meet a girl, who looks very similar to some person I know, but doesn't look exactly the same, she dresses differently or has different haircut or different name and personality, I don't know. Is that possible or do we see only the people who we know inside out in real life?

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Summerlander
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby Summerlander » 02 May 2013 01:17

What Raduga means is that it can be very easy to separate from your perceived sleeping body in a dream body that is then free to perambulate in a lucid dream environment. This is apparently easier upon awakenings (after having slept) as the brain is naturally primed for the hybrid state of mind that heralds wakefulness while dreaming.

On creating dream characters: it's very possible and I have done it several times. With a little practice you'll be able to materialise them out of thin air.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

neverlandjulia
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby neverlandjulia » 02 May 2013 13:45

Ok, thank you for the explanation :)
The thing is, I wanted a certain character to appear in my dream, so I kept thinking about him and imagining him during the day and before falling asleep, and yesterday I had a dream and I sort of felt he was there, because in the dream I was going to eat dinner with someone but after waking up I had no recall of their looks whatsoever, I just had this specific feeling that that were them. And I was wondering if that's because my brain couldn't create the image of the person I don't know in real life.

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Summerlander
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby Summerlander » 03 May 2013 20:40

I don't think that's the reason. You could mould a dream character's looks like an artist in a lucid dream if you like. Don't think your brain is limited. It has enough power to render the mind limitless in its creative resources. The mind has an abstractionist potential that we can hone to our advantage. Elevate your lucidity, which will make it easier for you to remember the details, and then have fun with your desired character. ;)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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taniaaust1
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby taniaaust1 » 04 May 2013 09:02

neverlandjulia wrote:oh God, if I only had time to try to even one of those things, that would be amazing. But actually it lasted only 3 seconds during which I was still lying in my bed (I recognised it was a dream because the feeling was weird and my bed was in different place of the room) and I didn't even make it to get out of it, I could just move my hands, nothing more.

I don't really know what Michael Raduga had in mind... what's so difficult in recognising when you're no longer dreaming? or maybe I didn't understand the quote right?

another question from another topic that I hope you guys will know answer for is ; once I become more aware, stable in dreams and will have more control over them, is it possible to create a dream character? for example, I would like to meet a girl, who looks very similar to some person I know, but doesn't look exactly the same, she dresses differently or has different haircut or different name and personality, I don't know. Is that possible or do we see only the people who we know inside out in real life?


umm quite possibly cause you were in your dream experiencing being in a bed laying probably much like your physical body, this may of made you think more of your physical body laying on a bed which probably didnt at all help things.

You could try to quickly get out of that bed next time by aggressively rolling out of it. This will either wake you right up or go the other way and help disconnect your thoughts from laying in a bed which may help. (It's also likely to send you into an OBE if you are very close to waking up like you were so be prepared for that result too).


Or you could of immediately thought of someone you know (who dont live in your house so you know its part of the dream) walking into the room before doing whatever else you needed to desperately do to try to keep you into that dream. I find it takes a few seconds for the dream character to walk in but if your dream lasted for a few seconds.. it may of been enough time to happen had you thought of someone doing that right away (and then that person may be able to get your attention enough to help you stay there). I suggest to think of it being someone you know as you will have then less doubts of creating a DC and having it walk into the room. Just think of the person coming in.. no effort is needed in thinking about what they look like, just think of them.

or as you did.. try rubbing hands again or you may find throwing the dream blankets off the bed may help (actually that is what I'd probably try to do to stabilise if I was in another bed after a quick thought "boyfriend about to walk in). Interacting with the dream even if its just in bed could be helpful.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

neverlandjulia
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby neverlandjulia » 07 May 2013 12:56

refreshing the topic, because I've got another question but don't want to start a new one not to clutter the forum

Yesterday, I had sort of lucid experience though I am not sure what it was. In my dream most of the time I was dreaming normally, but during some particular, emotional scene I suddenly started feeling things much stronger and clearer and I realised this is a dream. I tried to move to stabilise the dream but every time I tried to get my hands together I felt that the dream is slipping. I could only lie (the scene was in my bed, as usually when I have short LDs...) and go with the flow of what was happening around but I woke up after 15 seconds anyway.
this is also very weird because 1. I keep dream journal, I always analyse what is happening in my dreams so I could recognise that I'm dreaming the next time I do, I keep the list of my dream signs, read it before going to bed, I perform mindful reality checks during the day when I see the dream signs. and yet, NONE of my lucid dreams involved recognising that I'm dreaming by seeing unusual situation or my dream sign - I always realise that I'm dreaming just because of the strange feeling.
in that case, is that a LD after all, or maybe only some OBE? and does that mean that keeping a dream journal or performing RC doesn't make any sense for me?

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taniaaust1
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Re: ok so I'm starting to doubt

Postby taniaaust1 » 09 May 2013 03:14

Sorry no easy answers, just do whatever is feeling right for you.

I tried to move to stabilise the dream but every time I tried to get my hands together I felt that the dream is slipping. I could only lie (the scene was in my bed, as usually when I have short LDs...) and go with the flow of what was happening around but I woke up after 15 seconds anyway.


Sounds like with awareness you are becoming less relaxed (hence can only lie without being negatively affected). If this is the case.. do you know if you may be able to stay in the altered state longer (be it a dream state or an OBE state) if you just meditated from there (eg progressive body relaxation till you cant feel it well), maybe work on further relaxing once you gain awareness that something has changed, rather then doing anything right at that point? (if you stayed relaxed and held the state longer.. maybe it would then help you be more stable after that to do something??). You could both do progressive body relaxation and think about someone about to walk into your room at the same time in between the thoughts of "my eyes are relaxing and softening" "my mouth relaxes" etc etc.

It sounds to me that the rubbing hands together isnt a good stabilization technique for you so you need to try other things to do instead. You need to be prepared that you may need to experiment before you know what is best for you. (think of it as developing your own technique).
The only thing to fear is the fear itself


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