Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

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HAGART
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Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby HAGART » 14 May 2013 04:17

Have you ever noticed that when you are lucid in a dream you tend to forget about waking reality and lose yourself in the moment of the lucid dream? You may become a more simplistic, childish, inner 'self' and when you try to remember who you are and what you were planning to do in a lucid dream it escapes you. I just can't remember what my lucid dream plan was!

It's like the opposite side of waking consciousness when we tend to forget about what we dreamed about only moments ago. Try as I might, sometimes I can't remember my dreams.

And when I am in a dream and lucid, I just can't fully remember what it was like to be 'me' in waking reality. If I try too hard I wake up.

It's like there is one or the other and rarely both, and when I am 'here' I forget my dreams and when I am 'there' I forget what my waking self is like.

It's amnesia of 'self' no matter how you look at it, and if it can change depending on what state of mind I am in than I don't know what 'myself' is. I believe the sense of self we hold in our minds is an illusion created by our own imagination and it changes depending on what state of mind we are in.


WHO AM I? WHO ARE YOU? Let the debate begin......
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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mia
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Re: Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby mia » 14 May 2013 04:36

Very interesting Hagart. I think our idea of 'self' is mainly our ego-self; a mind creation based on our ideas of who we are: job, education, male or female; parent or sister or brother; good or bad at various things; all of our 'beliefs' and opinions; talented at this; trouble with that; we build up an image of who we think we are, and carry that idea around with us. We feed and defend our ideas of ourselves ( our egos) earnestly ( both positively and negatively). Probably being able to drop this mind construct in the realm of the subconscious is a good thing. Egos are a tricky business. Maybe you can be more truly yourself in your dreams ( and drop some of the ego- self baggage). Who knows. Thought provoking.

I'm just reading about Tibetan dream yoga; where the practise involves ( in lucid dreams) changing all things about your 'self': becoming the opposite sex; changing to be giant sized; then to a minuscule point; then becoming nothing but awareness itself with no body or form. Yet in all of this, they are still aware and lucid. This deep questioning of the sense of 'self' in a lucid state is fascinating. Who are we then without the usual 'baggage'; without all the things we imagine define who we are; without the ego?
The key to creativity is to remove the watchers from the gates, and realize how free you really are.

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Re: Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby LucidLink » 14 May 2013 14:07

mia wrote:Very interesting Hagart. I think our idea of 'self' is mainly our ego-self; a mind creation based on our ideas of who we are: job, education, male or female; parent or sister or brother; good or bad at various things; all of our 'beliefs' and opinions; talented at this; trouble with that; we build up an image of who we think we are, and carry that idea around with us. We feed and defend our ideas of ourselves ( our egos) earnestly ( both positively and negatively). Probably being able to drop this mind construct in the realm of the subconscious is a good thing. Egos are a tricky business. Maybe you can be more truly yourself in your dreams ( and drop some of the ego- self baggage). Who knows. Thought provoking.

I'm just reading about Tibetan dream yoga; where the practise involves ( in lucid dreams) changing all things about your 'self': becoming the opposite sex; changing to be giant sized; then to a minuscule point; then becoming nothing but awareness itself with no body or form. Yet in all of this, they are still aware and lucid. This deep questioning of the sense of 'self' in a lucid state is fascinating. Who are we then without the usual 'baggage'; without all the things we imagine define who we are; without the ego?


Beautifully said, and who are we without the ego?
God ;)

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HAGART
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Re: Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby HAGART » 15 May 2013 02:00

Yea, that is well said Mia and I agree.

It is definitely the ego sense of self. I can close my eyes and block my ears and feel like 'me', but in a dream, I am someone else, even with false memories sometimes to help support a non-lucid dream. But even when lucid, I am not entirely myself. I don't have the extra 'baggage' as you call it, and that sometimes comes crashing into my mind upon awakening. I start to think about where I am in 'life' and what I want to accomplish, and feel guilt about my past. All ego type stuff.

But in a dream I am a child-like self full of wonderment. And I guess children don't have a developed ego yet and that is why they learn so fast and are willing to try anything even if they fail. (Except eating green vegetables!) They don't have that inner voice that says, "I CAN'T do that. I am no good at that." With the ego, sense of self, I, and many others tend to stop ourselves in our own heads before we accomplish something simply because we feel we are not capable.

Again this morning, I had a false awakening in which I was in a room with family members and I just assumed I had taken a nap at the beginning of a family reunion because I was tired and was now ready to socialize and mingle. I still had my sense of self, but complete amnesia of where I was actually sleeping and what day it was. It's so easy to forget.

And if I had true amnesia in waking life, or no short term memory, or alzheimers, I wouldn't really be 'me' anymore. Our sense of self is so fragile and it truly is all in our heads. Which at first can seem scary, but it can also lead to self improvement and ignoring the negative aspects of ourselves, and the idea that we are untalented at something and simply say, YES I CAN! (Which is the way I tend to be when in a lucid dream. If only I could keep that same mentality when awake........)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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mia
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Re: Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby mia » 16 May 2013 03:26

I think you are so right Hagart; our sense of self is more fragile than we think because it really is all in our heads. Losing the ideas of who you are 'supposed to be' is liberating. (Sometimes, I also think it's one of the reasons I like to travel to foreign places, where there is no one who knows you, and no one imposing the limitations of who they think you are. I am free from who I am supposed to be in my day to day life.) The blow to the ego too; after people lose something they thought defined them (a job, a spouse or partner; health) can sometimes result in an epiphany and huge personal development.
The key to creativity is to remove the watchers from the gates, and realize how free you really are.

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HAGART
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Re: Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby HAGART » 16 May 2013 17:15

mia wrote:one of the reasons I like to travel to foreign places, where there is no one who knows you, and no one imposing the limitations of who they think you are.


I heard once that our sense of self identity is the result of how we imagine others perceive us.

Back to lucid dreaming though. I believe that the dream characters we meet are facets of our own selves. They represent our different personalities (cause lets face it, we are many, but just tend to be a dominant one when awake is all). Or the different DC's alter who 'I' am in the dream because just like in real life, I tend to behave differently depending on the type of people and personalities I am with.

I once did ask a dream character about this sort of thing and posted it back in February. I asked if they knew they were a dream character and they said, yes. Then I asked if I was a dream character (implying, am I a figment of my own imagination.) They said, yes. Then at the end of the conversation I said, isn't it interesting how we share the same mind, but neither of us have full access to it? (Because they know certain things I don't know and I know things they don't know".

Dream Characters too get amnesia and don't fully know me (but they should), and sometimes they don't know it is a lucid dream. But sometimes I don't know it is a dream either. Our DC's are really a lot like us aren't they? I think that's because they are us. We just need to redefine who we think we are....... Self Identity is only one aspect of who we really are and is dreamt in our heads just like a dream character is.

It gets deep when you are in a lucid dream and know all the dream characters are figments of your imagination and then turn your focus to yourself and wonder if the one observing it all may be a dream character too, but from the perspective of being within one! :o
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Re: Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby taniaaust1 » 17 May 2013 06:43

HAGART wrote:Have you ever noticed that when you are lucid in a dream you tend to forget about waking reality and lose yourself in the moment of the lucid dream? You may become a more simplistic, childish, inner 'self' and when you try to remember who you are and what you were planning to do in a lucid dream it escapes you. I just can't remember what my lucid dream plan was!


I find Im completely my normal self in my LDs so actually remember who I are in normal life while Im in the dream, I havent found myself lucid with an altered sense of self. I guess its cause I get a lot of my waking consciousness come in when I become lucid (hence one of the reasons why I find it hard to maintain my LDs). I do thou sometimes forget my dream challenges but I often forget them in real life as well.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

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HAGART
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Re: Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby HAGART » 17 May 2013 18:11

(MAN I TYPE A LOT! But I find this interesting.)

I started this thread by simply asking, 'Do you ever forget about waking life when in a lucid dream', but then I got deep and started to question the very essence of 'self'.

So back to the main amnesia thing. Although I feel like I am 'myself' I can forget what it's like in my waking life. For Example:

One time I had an OBE type lucid dream. I was in my bed and just felt like something was odd. I relaxed and started to float and get pulled around the room by a mysterious force. Then I thought, 'that's enough!', and I got up and walked out the room and had a good 30 minuted LD after that. (It was some sort of SP or transitional state...)

HOWEVER,.... when I finally did wake up, I was expecting to find myself in the same bed where it all started from, but it wasn't the same bed. It was my real bed. I had totally forgotten what it was like in 'reality' at the time when I was lucid. Like a false awakening actually. I was lucid and knew it was a dream, but the bedroom seemed normal at the time as if it had always been that way.

And of course forgetting lucid dream goals is another example. I remember some and then forget others that are just on the tip of my tongue (or tip of mind rather) and I just can seem to remember. When I wake up, and feel my consciousness change, I remember instantly! It's like that lucid dream state of mind just can't remember waking thoughts as easily. But it goes the other way too!
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Re: Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby HAGART » 17 May 2013 18:28

I thought of a a good analogy:

Waking and dreaming is like jumping into a clear pool of water at night and then climbing out in the morning. On the outside and dry, waking side, looking in, I can see my dreams under the water, but they are a little fuzzy, and when I dive in and dream, it is clear to me (not as clear as the air outside, even with the best lucid-dream swimming goggles that makes it clear to see while under the water), but when I try to see the waking, air side, from underwater in the dream it is murky and distorted trying to see it through the water. Even with the goggles. It's hard to see both fully at the same time.

Perhaps a lucid dream with full awareness of both sides is when we are snorkeling on the surface of the water and can do the back-stroke if we choose and switch back and forth depending on what we choose to look at. And you can get there either from under the water rising up, or from the surface, choosing not to sink, but to float. (DILD vs WILD)

And in normal, non-lucid dreams, that most people experience, we are so deep, it is hard to see and we don't even know there is a 'surface', and when we get out and try to look back, the water is too wavy, from how we splashed getting out, to see through.

(This would make a good dream-art picture. I can see it in my head, but can't produce it!)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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mia
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Re: Amnesia of 'self' in lucid dreams

Postby mia » 18 May 2013 19:48

Love your pool analogy Hagart; it really IS like living two separate ( but somehow connected) existences or 'worlds'.

It really makes you wonder about our day to day 'reality'.
The key to creativity is to remove the watchers from the gates, and realize how free you really are.


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