Astral projection

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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Re: Astral projection

Postby MaKr2011 » 24 Jun 2011 18:26

So for now, I will read the techniques and methods of how to have the experiences and then draw my own conclusions. I will of course try to help those who wish to have these experiences as well.

I couldn´t agree more! Once you have had these experiences you just want more and more - mo matter how or why they happen...:)

In my previous post I was asking for guidance on how to get into the so called "vibrations state" easier. Once in the state I find it quite easy to "exit" my body. I am now trying out and Nicholas Newport´s suggestions (stop, drop and roll). They seem simple in theory and resemble Mike Raluga´s suggestions, but I guess they prove a bit more tricky in reality...

I shall give you updates on my progress. I "accidentally" enter the vibration state and have OBE´s some 10 times/year but I really want to induce this more frequently. Lucid Dreaming has not worked out for me so OBE seems to be more my thing?! Also, I have ordered "Calea Z" and will try it out - I am a bit scared but have googled and they seem safe =)

Good luck and let us share experiences and suggestions to improve this skill!

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Re: Astral projection

Postby Hoop33 » 15 Aug 2011 06:16

Well, reading your blogs about the subject I too was a bit skeptical if it wasn't for actually having astral travelled myself. The thing that made me realize that I actually was successful was that feeling of travelling. The terrifying feeling of travelling and not know where you were going and if you would return. I have never dreamed or had felt that type of terrifying feeling you get just before you travel to the other side. No wonder why your subconscious does not allow you to remember for you would not do go forth and continue to take that step to actually let yourself travel. I think the difference of lucid dreaming and astral travel is that I was able to visit with those loved ones from the other side. I believe this to be true having seen and talked to a loved one that I visited. I have also been told that I have a gift of astral travelling but other than this one time of remembering it and the feeling that I felt, it is hard to believe it was just a dream.

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Re: Astral projection

Postby Snaggle » 08 Oct 2011 20:03

Rebecca wrote:
I have had out-of-body experiences myself while practicing lucid dreaming techniques and I think that OBEs and astral projection may just be another type or variation of a lucid dream experience. One that originates from the position and awareness of the sleeping body, but which launches out into a dream

OBE are not lucid dreams or wake induced lucid dreams, whether or not they're really real. Those cultures who have believed in them have normally thought of us as having more than one or two physical bodies. The simplest such idea being that in ceremonial magic where one has: a body; soul and spirit. The most complex being the ancient Egyptian theory of the composition of man. Speaking from personal experience, and I'm a natural WILDer who has always been had wake induced lucid dreams. OBE always happen before any onset of dream images or sleep paralysis. They're also consistent with normal reality in that one always leaves and returns. In any dream, hallucination or false awakening they can end instantly with one just waking up to end them.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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Re: Astral projection

Postby MaKr2011 » 08 Oct 2011 20:33

Yes, I have noticed that a Lucid Dream starts and ends in a dream whereas an OBE starts in sleep paralyze (being "awake") and ends in awakening completely. It is therefore easier to remember an OBE as clear as being awake and the Lucid Dream is more hazy...

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Re: Astral projection

Postby Summerlander » 09 Oct 2011 19:12

Actually, anything that gives you the sensation that you are not laying in bed can be regarded as an OOBE. Notice that the term is pragmatic. It does not affirm that one really leaves the body, it merely indicates that it is an EXPERIENCE.


In a lucid dream (and even the non-lucid ones for that matter), your awareness appears to be focusing elsewhere other than your physical body.

The astral projection term was made redundant by me because it is just misleading as projection experiences have nothing to do with "astral/celestial bodies" like stars and planets. The world encountered is closer to the waking world than anything else and no different to a lucid dream (I don't care if people say it's different because it isn't - it is the same realm but we are the ones who perceive it in various degrees of awareness). Astral projection is a belief-centric term and not concerned with facts. Secondly, there is no evidence of an astral plane or that there is even an afterlife. You will find that the term implies the existence of one straight away.

Conclusion: to me it is all the same in three years of experience. There is no difference. It appears that one enters the realm of thoughts upon an apparent separation from the body. Sleep paralysis always happens whether one is aware of it or not, btw. It is a mechanism that prevents us from acting out our dreams.

Furthermore, the mind can create any kind of illusion and people can interpret experiences in numerous ways. For example, once paralysed, an individual may believe that he is about to be abducted by aliens while another may think that a demon sits on his chest. Floating sensations can make someone think they are being led to the spaceship while other may believe that they have died and are out of body...belief and expectation will manifest reality for them in a gloriously realistic conclusion. Some may see aliens while others will notice their sleeping bodies lying in bed.

I'm sorry, guys, but, I experience many "OOBEs" and I believe that they are nothing but WILDs whereby the illusion of separation from the body is conveyed. Once I take a look around at the dream replica of my bedroom I soon become aware of the inconsistencies. For this reason, I don't believe that one ever leaves the body.

There is something else I'd like to share with you all in regards to split-brain patients and what happens to them:

"Split-brain patients have also taught us about dreaming. Scientists had hypothesized that dreaming is a right hemisphere activity, but they found that split brain patients do report dreaming. They found, therefore, that the left hemisphere must have some access to dream material. What was most interesting was the actual content of the dreams of the split-brain patients. Klaus Hoppe, a psychoanalyst, analyzed the dreams of twelve patients. He found that the dreams were not like the dreams of most normal people. " The content of the dreams reflected reality, affect, and drives. even in the more elaborate dream, there was a remarkable lack of distortion of latent dream thoughts. The findings show that the left hemisphere alone is able to produce dreams...Patients after commisurotomy reveal a paucity of dreams, fantasies, and symbols. Their dreams lack the characteristics of dream work; their fantasies are unimaginative, utilitarian, and tied to reality; their symbolization is concretistic, discursive, and rigid." (Segalowitz)"

ps. Robert Monroe's "Journey's Out of the Body" is a great read but I also found him a little naive and biased. I feel the same about Robert Bruce in that I think he is extremely biased by the extensive reading into the New Age and Spiritualist traditions he's done when he was younger.

As someone once said to me: "you can connect any star in the sky if you want to."
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: Astral projection

Postby Seth » 18 Oct 2011 11:19

Yes, you can't prove the existence of an after-life, but, as stupid as it sounds, you can't prove that it doesn't exist either. For all we know, you can't prove that this 'reality', in which we apply our scientific rules, is any more valid than realities people experience in dreams, or possibly after death. I had quite a few arguments with people, considering the term 'fact'. Science is not advanced enough, and will never be advanced enough to prove everything. With quantum theory, most of Newton's physics is now considered totally obsolete, and before it was something not to be questioned. Even with new theories, the whole science world is stuck in paradigms. I, by no means, want to believe in something with absolutely no proof. However, one thing which I am certain of is that people are more than just an organic machine, and that consciousness is more than just a product of brain's mechanism. I won't go into that any further, it's a bit off-topic now.
What I personally consider is that both true and fake OBEs/astral journeys are possible. There is a number of stories about people trying to confirm that they are having an OBE by observing a friend during the experience and later asking him what he was doing or wearing to see if it was true, listening to what someone is talking about, etc. Some of them were right, but there were undoubtedly people who found inconsistencies, or even realized that their brain made up the whole experience. In my opinion, OBE is something that cannot be approached from a scientific or a skeptic perspective. If you are just looking for inconsistencies, glitches and deeply believing that it cannot be true, you will just wander off to another lucid dream that mimics your reality. With all that in mind, I still do not know enough about the topic, and I am not saying that I am absolutely right. This is just my standpoint.

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Re: Astral projection

Postby fuzzylogic » 07 Nov 2011 17:40

Mr anonymous wrote:Didn't robert monroe reckon it was real? I dont really know what to believe. It's kindof hard to accept that we can do something like that. It would be nice for something to believe in though. i'm real new at this stuff

I'm coming to the conclusion that it is real and these phenomenon are all related.

Let me take it up a notch in strangeness. --- I think they are also interconnected, including with past lives/reincarnation.

Rather than talk about dreams and trying to prove to each other whether they are real (almost impossible to prove), how about an example of verifiable personal history that happened to another physical person a thousand miles away? If this is true, it is a definite example of information that originated outside of this person's direct physical experience.

Once you accept this as being possible, you need to accept the probability of NDE, OBE and other non-physical experiences as being outside of your physical person as well.

And once you make these intellectual leaps, is it so hard to imagine that LD is part of this continuum of experiences? Do we really think there are a multitude of these unexplained dimensions that are all unrelated? Or is it more probable that there is one (potentially vast) non-physical environment where these occurrences go on?

I have moved from a "normal" LD into what I think may be this sort of space. I'm pretty sure it exists. The fact that many books have described this same thing offers some additional validation to me. However, I wouldn't try to convince anyone of what I have experienced as it could be argued that I was communicating with myself the whole time so I would point you to what I consider a more concrete example... One of many,,, but I am offering just one here.

Take a look at the following link. Scroll down to "Sweet Swarnlata: A Case from Dr. Ian Stevenson" and try to explain away the case of this little girl who claims and proves she lived another life.

My point is this: once you start to accept that this is possible, you have to except the possibility that this expanded non-physical environment is real, and that much of what you are, and can experience, is not located inside of your your physical existence.

The only way you can outright deny this possibility is to argue that this story (and the 19 just like it) never happened. Now how rational is that?

While you are on the page, I would check out the video. It offers a cogent discussion of the facts.


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Re: Astral projection

Postby Summerlander » 10 Nov 2011 00:20

Oh deary me! I see all New Age adherents coming out of the woodwork now.

Science is not advanced enough, and will never be advanced enough to prove everything.

This you don't know, Seth. Science continues to make progress - more so in the last century. We can now make antimatter! Another thing I would like to point out: quantum's theory...and also a zoo of contradictions and disagreements. They are so uncertain about this that they dread not being able to find a particle that they invented: the Higg's boson.

However, one thing which I am certain of is that people are more than just an organic machine, and that consciousness is more than just a product of brain's mechanism.

I have no doubt in my mind that all experience ceases once the brain is destroyed. In fact, you don't even have to go that far. Damage to the brain cortex can induce long-term coma. You can be out for years and return to consciousness and feel like no time has passed at all.

Also, you don't remember anything prior to your birth. You didn't exist. That is the closest you will get to understanding what being dead is like from the living perspective.

There is nothing to suggest that the view where the self is nothing but an illusion created by body cells working together is wrong. In fact, it is very plausible. Take drugs and you are very likely to distort your perception of reality and even your mood. In meditation, you are able to let go of concepts. A deep hypnotic trance can even make you forget your own name. It is all electrochemical activity in the brain.

Like a computer, the brain can generate images. It is a very complex biological machine. It produces both waking and sleeping experience.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: Astral projection

Postby Peter » 10 Nov 2011 00:46

To me all experience takes place in the brain or in the conscious state that is produced by the brain. I won’t go into the electro-chemical process as that is not relevant for my thoughts. The IMPUT for this experience can come from outside or be constructed from internal stored experience and chopped up in many ways either by will or by random processes.

I feel that past life is a construct of the mind, might be pure fantasy or may be by minds (young minds) being tuned into others thoughts in the dream state and them a culture nurturing these thoughts and turning them into something that isn’t.
Radio waves exist beyond the point of generation, if they didn’t we would not be able to receive them, could thought be projected like this and if so what state would you need to be in to receive them. If you could receive them would they remain pure or would you place them into some context to "explain" them and present them in a way that you want to believe.

I have been LD for a lifetime, had countless OBE and WILD experiences and believe they are special in their own right and think control of the dream state allows us into another reality but firmly believe it is in your head but that the input may at times be external.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Re: Astral projection

Postby fuzzylogic » 10 Nov 2011 12:40

Summerlander wrote:
There is nothing to suggest that the view where the self is nothing but an illusion created by body cells working together is wrong.

I know you are probably just kidding about the new age comment but I want to repeat- I am not a "new ager". I am a professional electrical engineer, not a tarot card reader. You don't know me but I assure you, I am the most level headed guy you'd ever want to meet.

Up to about 2 years ago I "knew" life was about being born, living, dying and then fading to black. I had no evidence to the contrary.

How can you make the statement above in the face of the many hundreds of "eye witness" accounts to the contrary? How is it valid to simply ignore these cases and make that sort of blanket statement that there is "nothing to suggest" ? Seems like you are the one who is being less rigorous from a scientific perspective.

A few hundred years ago many said there was, "nothing to suggest" that the Earth and other planets revolved around the sun. Turns our there were many things suggesting this fact. For example there was a whole set of very convoluted equations describing the odd tracks of the planets as they orbited Earth, but very simple equations existed to show them revolving around the sun. How could people dismiss this obvious contradiction? Because the new theory didn't fit into the normally accepted picture of things. This all seems obvious now, but then again all things do after the fact,,, don't they?

One might also keep in mind that today in 2011 there is nothing in science to say that two objects can become entangled and share information over great (perhaps infinite) distances instantaneously (ie- faster than the speed of light) in violation of more than one of Mr Einstein's theories. Nothing that is,, except the fact that it does exist and has been experientially proven numerous times over the last 50 years. The double slit experiment shouldn't work: but it does, every time. So although we can point no scientific basis for the "strange" occurrence of quantum entanglement, there is overwhelming proof of its existence.

So,,,, I would respectfully suggest to those who really wish to be unbiased, that they consider not simply ignoring those pieces of data that don't serve to prove their case and take all the available relevant information on the topic into account.

Put another way- A good scientist doesn't sort through the data and throw out that which doesn't fit the desired curve.

Just a thought.

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