Astral projection

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
thomas
Posts: 74
Joined: 19 Oct 2011 18:19

Re: Astral projection

Postby thomas » 01 Dec 2011 00:42

Lots of info to think over.

Peter - interesting post. You seem to be one of these people that have unusual experiences. Maybe these type of experiences happen more often than we think. It's possible people don't want to admit it for fear of being thought crazy etc.

Fuzzylogic - you and I seem to have similar beliefs. I find it hard to think otherwise with all I have experienced and seen so far in my life.

Yet - in the end what we know (or think we know) seems to always raise more questions than it answers. I guess that's good as it keeps us learning and searching.

Thomas

Snaggle
Posts: 590
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 13:08

Re: Astral projection

Postby Snaggle » 01 Dec 2011 02:11

thomas wrote: Now, one day - early in my career - we were coding an elderly gentleman. Believe it or not, a piece of intubating equipment was missing off the crash cart. I had to run down a flight of stairs to get it. At the time I left to get this equipment this man had no pulse or respiration - and had been at that state for at least a couple of minutes. I returned to the code and it continued on for a couple of more minutes or so before we "got him back". The next day I was talking with him and he was very depressed. I asked him "why?" and this is what he told me. (He did not want to tell me for fear I would think him crazy.)

He said that when he "was dead" he saw me. He stated he followed me to the next floor to get the equipment. He stated I dropped it - which I did. He also told me what I had said to the other nurses as I was getting the equipment - the exact words. He stated he was depressed because he didn't want to be on this earth anymore. He had seen he deceased wife but she told him he had to go back... So, this was not a LD. It was not a normal dream. This happened in the waking world. He was dead by our monitors - heart rate was zip. No breathing. How in the heck could he have seen me? How could he have heard anything? And for sure he was not moving about in his physical body!..This man acquired information that he could not have known -while he was dead. How is that possible? Here's some of that proof you were speaking of fuzzylogic. Now for me this was a first hand experience. I realize that for those of you reading this it is anecdotal. I am glad I was there - it really rocked my world. It was eye opening. I absolutely hated it at the time though. Kept me up many, many nights.

This man was conscious while his body had no vitals. None. He was able to move, see, hear and speak - though no one could hear him. What part of him was this? Is this what is experienced at times in lucid dreams. I don't know. I have no idea. I will continue to search and keep an open mind. But clearly - in my opinion - there is much more. And so ... the search goes on.



Thomas


Yes, this is often recorded and as there have been two major studies of it ( the Southampton study and the Dutch study) with a third (the Aware study) about to post results in 2012, the evidence is not just anecdotal or even just survey evidence. Here's an example from the Dutch Study

[quote=DR. Pim van Lommel, Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest a prospective study in the Netherlands, the Lancet]

During the pilot phase in one of the hospitals, a coronary-care-unit nurse reported a veridical out-of-body experience of a resuscitated patient:
“During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the ‘crash car’. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: ‘Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are’. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: ‘Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.’ I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man.” [/quote]

Out the window are the lame ideas of phase states, OBE are dreams etc. One can't dream in the brain with a flat EEG and no activity in the cortex or brain stem.
Last edited by Snaggle on 01 Dec 2011 13:43, edited 1 time in total.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

thomas
Posts: 74
Joined: 19 Oct 2011 18:19

Re: Astral projection

Postby thomas » 01 Dec 2011 03:22

Snaggle - Thanks for your response. I'll keep my eyes open for those studies - they'll be interesting for sure!

Thomas

Snaggle
Posts: 590
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 13:08

Re: Astral projection

Postby Snaggle » 01 Dec 2011 13:41

Dr. Sam Parnia did the Southampton/UK study and is the lead researcher for the Aware study.


Sam Parnia - press conference -Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGl9BZmoWtU

Sam Parnia - press conference -Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laBjuO7Lyo0

Sam Parnia - press conference -Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0aMU5hLmMk

Dr. Bruce Greyson at the UN on Near Death Experiences - Beyond the Mind-Body Problem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kUyFeSizr0


Interesting NDE

Medical Proof of mind and memory outside the body 1of 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM81dxIx6Ow&feature=related

Medical proof of consciousness and memory outside of the body 2/2 Pseudoskeptics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksvGaonRqjw

Near Death Experience - Blind woman SEES while OUT OF BODY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbtoX3Q5OI
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

fuzzylogic
Posts: 89
Joined: 09 Oct 2011 13:30

Re: Astral projection

Postby fuzzylogic » 01 Dec 2011 14:41

few experiences from my own life-

1- 5 years ago I attended my mother-in-laws funeral. We were sitting in church (by the way, I have no religious beliefs) and my 16 year old niece was sitting in the pew behind me. My niece had showed up late to the church with her mother and had not had any contact with anyone in the family that day, before sitting in the pew.

While behind us, during the service, my niece kept whispering something mostly inaudible.

After the the service we asked her what was going on... She explained that "gramma was playing with my hair and talking to me, telling me things are going to be OK". I'm thinking that's a typical of a young child in a scene like this. Then my wife asked, did you see gramma? "yes", What was she wearing? "a blue dress with a white collar, and,,, and,,,." She described her perfectly.

My mother in law had a closed casket ceremony. And ONLY my wife and her sister know what they dressed her in. But my niece somehow knew...

2- When my father was a teenager, on Christmas eve, he was woken up in the middle of the night by his grandfather. His grandfather explained that he would be going away and wanted to say goodbye. My father talked with him for a while and then he left.

In the morning my father asked where grampa was going and why. My fathers parents looked at him in shock and eventually explained that grampa had been killed a few hours previously in a car accident on the way home from work.

3- I was an EMT for many years and have had patients described to me the standard NDE experience. I've always chalked it up to hypoxia or chemical releases close to the event of death. I now see that these descriptions are too much like actual death experiences accounted by people who have described experiences where they actually DID die in a previous life.

4- 3 years ago my aunt was in the final hours of life (cancer) and my cousin was with her in her home. My aunt awoke from a nap and asked for a glass of water. As my cousin walked to the door of the room my aunt said with surprise and a smile, who is that man in the corner? My cousin looked and of course there was nobody there.

My cousin went to get the water and a couple minutes later returned to find her mother had passed away.

Was that person in the corner someone who had come to help my aunt move to her non-physical existence? I never really had an opinion. Now I do.

fuzzylogic
Posts: 89
Joined: 09 Oct 2011 13:30

Re: Astral projection

Postby fuzzylogic » 01 Dec 2011 21:30

Snaggle:

Great links, thanks.

No surprises here. But maybe this will get the attention it deserves. (honestly doubt it)

Funny- one of the videos touches on something I said in my previous post. That is regarding: where are memories actually stored? Science says the brain. But this case is interesting because this woman remembers something that occurred while her brain was intentionally non-functional, aka- dead. There was no blood in it! But she remembers anyway. Tom Campbell would say that this is because all the data needed for the memory exists outside of the biological body, in the non-physical. Our brain is only used as a way to access that memory.

"Proof" ? Enough for some people, yes. But not for most. In any case, very interesting.

In terms of the AWARE project. I think it's been in progress for some time and has documented no cases. True?

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Peter
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Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: Astral projection

Postby Peter » 01 Dec 2011 23:51

Thomas, yes they are very regular and open up a lot of questions. All my comments are made based on my experiances and as far as OBE's are concerned there have been a lot of them. I think most people can or may experiance them at times and are either freaked out and hope to never go there again or try to find some way to explain and a lot of this is based on popular culture.

I am becoming more aware of these states and the suttle changes in feeling or awareness that allows entry to a new state. I would like to get better at the OBE body exits and LD where I have full and complete control (as far as you can) and then explore that world wherever it may be.

The more I experiance altered states the more I am wary of popular beliefs and the more I am humbled by the experiance. I really think that we simply cant explain them correctly at the moment and so should seek to explore the states and hold off on any conclusions for a while.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

thomas
Posts: 74
Joined: 19 Oct 2011 18:19

Re: Astral projection

Postby thomas » 02 Dec 2011 02:57

Snaggle - thanks for the links - going to try to look at them tomorrow.

Peter - I am envious that you can LD so easily - I'm still working at it. Altered states such as OBE's and LD's are really worth exploring. Just wish I could find the technique that works fairly consistently for me.

Fuzzylogic - I believe everything that you wrote. I have also been a Hospice Director in my career and many incidents very similar to what you described happened. Family members were convinced they had seen/heard their loved ones after death - even when they had not yet been informed they had died. Dying patients also saw deceased relatives prior to their death. (even beloved deceased pets - now that's opening a whole new can of worms!) What's interesting about some of these is that they did not know the relatives in life but described them to relatives that did. One of the more interesting patient's told me when he was going to die - down to the minute. He hit it on the nose. Coincidence? Personally I don't think so.

I have a theory - I think that as we are dying our "eyes" begin to open up and we see more than what our physical eyes can see. I have seen this happen in most cases - be they religious or not. I have also seen it happen with devout atheists. Also, if you listen closely to the dying most of the time they will give you hints as to when they are going to die (physically). "I won't be here in 3 weeks to attend the party" "I'm going sailing next week" "I think the birds are leaving today" "I'm going up the mountain today" (an avid hiker said that) or just plain "I'm going to die tomorrow". They have this knowing. A lot of times they use symbolism. Are most of these statements open for interpretation - probably - but when you work with the dying enough you get a sense of when they are giving you serious hints. Don't know how else to explain it.

More food for thought ----

Thomas

fuzzylogic
Posts: 89
Joined: 09 Oct 2011 13:30

Re: Astral projection

Postby fuzzylogic » 03 Dec 2011 20:22

I know this thread goes way beyond the typical "how to I lucid dream" stuff but I wanted to share something else for those who are curious.

As I've said earlier in the thread, I think all of these 'paranormal' phenomenon that we've touched on (LD, OBE, NDE, life between life,,,) aren't individual isolated quirks of nature. I think they represent a spectrum of experiences in one common spiritual realm where we are all interconnected in a fundamental way.

Here is a link to an amazing NDE experience that goes to the core of what I think lies behind everything in what I refer as the "non-physical".

I think LD is potentially what we experience as we dip our toe into the water, and the further we wade into this non-physical space, the more complete and rich and amazing the whole experience becomes.

I watched all three of the videos. There is some repetition but some new info in each.

http://anitamoorjani.com/

Snaggle
Posts: 590
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 13:08

Re: Astral projection

Postby Snaggle » 08 Dec 2011 02:10

Fuzzylogic I'm making the reasonable assumption that both OBE and NDE are the same experience; but with each type of Out of body experience there's the OBE in the real world and an astral experience of other realm, as accounts of these other realms don't agree in details and have no verifiable elements I'm assuming they're some sort of OBE wake experienced dreams and there fore of no real value.

It is interesting that one can have dreams while out of body and that they all resemble vivid WILD.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel


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