Lucid dreams need to be considered in terms of the sleep stages they occur in. Normal sleep goes like this: the body is totally relaxed and one loses consciousness; followed by hypnagogic images; followed by Non-Rem dreams; followed by deep dreamless delta sleep; followed by REM muscle atonia ("sleep paralysis") followed by REM dreams. Lucid dreams if wake initiated go like this: the body relaxes; but the brain slows to a theta brain wave state at which time hypnagogic images start to appear; followed by NREM dreams; next one either enters a delta state in which one is conscious (but without thought or emotion-the brain is almost completely shut down and their are no dream images either and people entering delta sleep sometimes fall asleep in it losing consciousness) or one skips delta sleep and enters directly Rem muscle atonia (normally experienced as a quick under 2 second dream image) and then enters REM dreams.
Hypnagogic images- usually are a stream of images (Some people experience colors or patterns before clearer images appear) the stream of images can turn into more complex images that are full scenes in which one can see and individually examine every detail, more rarely HI are photo dreams that one can interact with. Extremely simple games like the ancient Pacman can be played out in HI so can more complex games like Civilization V or Total war or experience a music video and be able to interact with it. The easiest way to tell you what HI are is to say that there more vivid and stable imaginative flashes and one can do stuff like create and test designs of real objects, as N. Testla did while creating his inventions.
NREM dreams- HI give way to these at some point and very rarely one can skip HI altogether and enter them directly. The NREM dream state is the state that sleep walking and sleep talking happen in. I don't sleep walk but do sleep talk (darn it!) The brain is still interacting with the real world in the NREM dream state. Unfortunately one can't always tell between real world events and dream events in this state. Real events might show up as dreams, such as the setting or characters from a TV show playing in the real world showing up as dream or one might be aware of the real world and the dreamscape at the same time. The awareness of the real world sometimes is just another dreamscape running at the same time, e.g. during December of 2012 I experienced cookies being baked while in another lucid dream, when I woke up I went hunting for them and was told she had not been baking (Major darn it, they smelled really good). Having my name called in this state and waking up to see what she wants is a fairly common experience for me in this state. Note: the brain is capable of acting on it's own while you're in a lucid dream in this state. Sometimes when sleep talking I know that a conversation is going on, but don't know what either I or the other real person is saying. Edgar Cayce did many of his dream reading without knowing what he said too. Ones subconscious can be interacting with the real world while one is in a lucid dream, e.g. I was in a very pleasant Lucid dream chatting and flirting with three beauties, while my body and subconscious were screaming ( I'm subject to very severe muscle cramps in my legs during the winter months and usually wake up screaming several times in a year) It was somewhat interesting that I could have this happen without waking up or have the dream effected by the real world state of my body, so your Dreamwalker character not having his dream broken when struck in the real world is very possible. A good example of this out of normal NREM dream states is my childhood best friend's older brother, we tormented him with a string while he was sleeping and he reacted by trying to brush away the "fly", after several attempts to brush it away he finally hit himself hard in the face to kill that "fly" and woke himself up. We had time to hide the string and he thought he had been awakened by a real fly . One can also intentionally move ones real body without breaking a NREM lucid dream and it might be possible to intentionally sleep walk without breaking this state, but I don't know that's possible for sure. In my case I can always end a NREM dream or HI by just opening my eyes. NOTE: even though I don't enter delta sleep ever in a lucid dream state, I can enter delta brain wave states consciously and leave them at will too- the advantage of being an experienced meditator. Dream returns are usually to NREM dream states.
REM muscle atonia this is state that is often called "sleep paralysis". I've occasionally entered directly into REM muscle atonia while fully awake and was not "paralyzed" at all. I think that people falling into SP experiences are really in semi-lucid dreams. YOUTUBE sleep paralysis or old hag experience to learn more about them or Talk to Peter here (as he's had tons of both SP and old hag experiences. I experience REM muscle atonia as just a quick dream image that transitions almost immediately.
REM dreams are normally more vivid and emotionally intense than NREM dreams and the vividness can be virtual reality with all ones senses active and experiencing the dreamscape. Ones consciousness normally has no interaction with the real world during lucid REM dreams. I personally think that REM dreams occur to entertain the brain while the body is in it's most intense sleep inspired by the onset of REM muscle atonia. Most false awakenings happen out of REM lucid dreams and the false awakenings can be completely vivid and trick one into thinking one has really woken up and they can be strung together back to back, where one experiences a false awakening from a false awakening. Lucid REM dreams are much harder to wake out of and a Lucid dreamer might not be able to wake out of them.
In my experience lucid dreams always alternate with lucid nightmares in this state and though I've never experienced SP, I have been trapped in vivid lucid nightmare for hours without the abilities: to wake up; control the dream or control the experience or shear terror- lucid dreaming is not all halo decks and part hats as is often claimed. On a less emotionally traumatic I've been killed in them and experienced completely vivid death agonies or completely vivid torture. I've been tortured and wounded in real life too, so have something to compare dream wounds, death agonies and torture to. emotionally unstable people might have post traumatic shock from dream experiences or people with weak hearts have real life heart attacks and really die from them.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel
Snaggle wrote: Lucid dreams if wake initiated go like this: the body relaxes; but the brain slows to a theta brain wave state at which time hypnagogic images start to appear; followed by NREM dreams; next one either enters a delta state in which one is conscious (but without thought or emotion-the brain is almost completely shut down and their are no dream images either and people entering delta sleep sometimes fall asleep in it losing consciousness) or one skips delta sleep and enters directly Rem muscle atonia (normally experienced as a quick under 2 second dream image) and then enters REM dreams.
I'd like to point out that certainly isnt the case for everyone. I rarely get hypnagogic images (thou I did once last week with one of my LDs.. of the photo flashing kind).
90% of the time I go from wake intiated straight into the LD (no hypnagogic stuff. no voices.. no nothing.. just straight to the dream). Im in my body one second and experiencing the dream the next (thou sometimes to start with can have some physical awareness of my body and sometimes I dont have all my senses in the dream when I enter, they can take a little time to come in).
Ive only ever once had trouble getting out of a LD at will, no matter how deep I was at the time. Sleep paralyses is a different story.. Ive found one can be completely aware of the physical body and physical (out of what Id call a LD) but unable to move still as something in the body adjusts. (im sure Im not dreaming in it as at times I can open eyes and my eyes do not go and reopen yet again so its my physical eyes opening if the rest of me is still paralysed. One can thou break it by focusing on toe or finger and using a strong will to want to break.. it can take some effort.
I'm going to try and find some time to explore these forums more. Thanks for the suggestions.
Again, the digital version is available on request to those who may want to take the time to point out any huge errors As it's only 13,000 words at present, it could probably be comfortable read in PDF on a PC screen if you don't have an ereader.
Rothgar, I've emailed you again.
EDIT: Update. I am now able to use the PM system to reply to your PMs
Snaggle wrote: Lucid dreams need to be considered in terms of the sleep stages they occur in. Normal sleep goes like this: the body is totally relaxed and one loses consciousness; followed by hypnagogic images; followed by Non-Rem dreams; followed by deep dreamless delta sleep; followed by REM muscle atonia ("sleep paralysis") followed by REM dreams. Lucid dreams if wake initiated go like this: the body relaxes; but the brain slows to a theta brain wave state at which time hypnagogic images start to appear; followed by NREM dreams; next one either enters a delta state in which one is conscious (but without thought or emotion-the brain is almost completely shut down and their are no dream images either and people entering delta sleep sometimes fall asleep in it losing consciousness) or one skips delta sleep and enters directly Rem muscle atonia (normally experienced as a quick under 2 second dream image) and then enters REM dreams.
Research is showing that things may quite different to what was originally thought and actually in LDers their brains may be speeding up to even levels higher then waking normal levels. Rebecca has written about this here at this site.
Brainwave Recordings During REM Sleep
More recently, in 2009, a study by the Neurological Laboratory in Frankfurt showed people with significantly increased brain activity while lucid dreaming.
An EEG machine recorded highly active frequencies up to the 40 Hz (or Gamma) range in lucid dreamers. This is far more active than the normal dream state (Theta: 4-8 Hz) and even your current waking state (Beta: 12-38 Hz), supporting the need to classify lucidity as a separate state of consciousness altogether.
The research also showed heightened activity in the frontal and frontolateral areas of the dreaming brain - the seat of linguistic thought and other higher mental functions linked to self-awareness. Sleep scientists accepts that lucid dreaming is real and may offer considerable insight into the nature of human consciousness.
So maybe some are skipping the previously thought flow of things esp those not getting the hypnagogic images and jumping nearly straight into Gamma (faster brain state then the waking state).
I've been LDing all of my life, but I do believe anyone can do it. I'd suggest you read Stephen LaBerge's book and try it yourself. It's actually difficult to explain to someone who has never has one. I'd also suggest 'Lucid Dreaming Gateway to the Inner Self' ( Robert Waggoner), and The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep' ( Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche). Of course read through some of the descriptions here on this forum of people's Lucid Dreams ( the 'Share Your Lucid Dreams' board). People here may be open to answering questions you might have as well.
Best of luck.
One funny story... in my 2nd lucid dream there was a tiger on the loose, and the fear triggered my lucidity. I then walked over to the tiger, and decided I was going to throw it into the sky so high it would disappear into a tiny dot in the sky, and that is exactly what happened... I grabbed it and threw it, and watched it vanish. Interestingly, 3 months later in our local paper, some writer had a little article in the paper about a dream he had.... he was in India, and all of a sudden, a tiger came flying out of the sky from the horizon, and landed right at his feet! While I'm not a believer in shared dreaming, I did clip out the article and put it in my dream journal where I had written my story 3 months earlier! I think most lucid dreamers probably have some weird things they have experienced.[/quote]
By the Way: Just love your story Rothgar!
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Beethoven, Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests